I think the biggest problem *I* have with the background material for game
systems like WH40K (whick I've never played but watched a lot of games) and
Battletech (Which I played WAY too much) is not how dark or evil the forces
may or may not be - it's how little say I have over what the background
is like. It's constricting. That's the beauty of the generic nature of GZG.
Whether you play your take on a canon power, a non-canon power, or not
even in the Tuffleyverse, it's UP TO YOU. The tone can bew as dark or light or
as many shades in between as you like. You can fashion your power as despotic,
enlightened, heroic, villainous, and as idealistic, optimistic, realistic,
pessimistic, or Mystic as you want. I grew tired of having to decide if I
wanted to be a merc, a Davion, a Clanner, etc.... Now I can be a Cascadian,
and define what that means, or a NAC loyalist, or a Cylon, or a Klingon, or a
Moron...... OK, that one may be unavoidable. But the rest is up to me.
Well, I played 40k:Rogue Trader a bit back when we JUST called it was still
just called Warhammer 40k...
We played using about 60% of the rules from the book and 40% of our own
rules...and 0% of the lame-arse GW background. Hell, I remember the
first time we saw the "Army Lists" that GW was pushing. We literally laughed
in the face of the store owner when he explained to us that unless the forces
you used were from an "official" army list you were not playing the game
correctly.
It depends on WHO you game with NOT what rules system you use. I have
played minis since the early 70's and I have seen/played a LOT of
different
sci-fi rules and GW's take on this issue is an exception and not the
rule.
The only real problem I have with this issue regarding GW is that they are
such hard-arse's about their background/army lists/point system/ect/etc/
that they convince the 9-15 year-olds that it SHOULD be this way. But,
once you show someone the 'light' rarely do they go back (with the exception
of rule lawyers that thrive in this GW fostered atmosphere). And it is not
hard to show someone the 'light'. Heck, if someone reads sci-fi novels
(even the GW stuff <shudder>) it won't take but a chapter or two before they
stumble across something they would like to use in a game...but can't
according to GW.
Just my 2 cents.
Scott
> From: "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
and
> Battletech (Which I played WAY too much) is not how dark or evil the
> I think the biggest problem *I* have with the background material for
and
> Battletech (Which I played WAY too much) is not how dark or evil the
I assume Morons are from Moria, the heavy-gravity mining planet....??
;-)
Thanks for the comments, Brian, it pretty much sums up what I have intended
all along. Aside from the obvious problems of the lack of eight brains and
sixteen arms (or seven clones), lack of 36-hour days etc., this is why
I've resisted the temptation to make the canon background too detailed or
intrusive - the more that gets published and adopted into canon, the
tighter things get defined and the less freedom the players have (IMHO). This
is why I don't intend to detail the places, wars or events of the
timeline TOO deeply - if you want to have a Battle of New Six Mile
Bottom* in your Third Solar War campaign, then you can do so without some tw*t
(insert vowel of your choice) saying "but there's no such
colony/world/battle/whatever in the timeline, so you can't do that...."
You can't please all of the gamers all of the time, I know, and there is a lot
more we COULD publish (and may do!) without tying things down too much, but I
hope never to lose sight of the generic nature of the systems.
> From: Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.keme.co.uk>
> * FYI, Six Mile Bottom is a real village not that far from here.....
;-)
The most stereotypically, picturesquely English address I ever encountered was
the address of a customer at my former place of employemnt. They lived in Old
Tap House Upper, Wooton Basingstoke. I expect he was a hobbit.
I'm honored to finally have a reply to one of my posts by St^3 Jon himself. I
meant what I said, thanks for some excellent games.
> From: Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.keme.co.uk>
;-)
> The most stereotypically, picturesquely English address I ever
Totally off-topic rambling.....
Long ago, before GZG was a full-time business, I worked in a specialist
bit of the Print industry; we once did a job of work for the official Kenyan
Bureau of Standards - their address, I kid you not, is:
"Behind the Belle Vue Cinema, Mombasa Road, Nairobi"
;-)
> I'm honored to finally have a reply to one of my posts by St^3 Jon
And thanks to you for buying them, Brian - that's how we stay in
business! ;-)
Jon (GZG)
> Brian B2
From: Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.keme.co.uk>
> Reply-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
> At 09:31 AM 1/25/02 -0800, you wrote:
and
> Battletech (Which I played WAY too much) is not how dark or evil the
Ah, it's not that bad. I don't much 'bout Battletech, but back when we
actually used semi-GW rules and background, we cheerfully made up our
own forces. We usually had Marines of some sort (our own Chapters, nothing
"official") against rebels of various sorts. It worked, it was fun, and that's
what mattered.
Oh, and we used 15mm figures, too. Lots of scratchbuilt vehicles. Made us
Heretics of many different sorts, really.
(I have thought that it would be a lot of fun to set some games -- RPGs,
perhaps, as well as miniatures -- in the aftermath of the death of the
Emperor and the collapse of the Imperium. The death of the big guy would have
a catastrophic effect upon much of the setting, and provide lots of room for
playing around with the remaining bits.)
> (I have thought that it would be a lot of fun to set some games --
One piece of background that GW seem to have abandoned long ago is the "Star
Child". When the Emperor finally dies he will be reborn as the Star Child. A
golden age will begin.
I thought that was a stroke of genius... all that effort expended
to keep the Emperor alive as an unthinking astro-navigation beacon
and preserve a grim bureaucratic status quo, when all they have to do is let
him die to usher in happy days.
> Ummm.... I haven't bought in a long time (hanging head in shame)
a) Jon didn't say "thanks for buying some *recently*", that I noticed. b) If
you still feel guilty, then "thanks for persuading your friends,
neighbors, relatives, and passing strangers to buy some" :-) It's a bit
late (or early) to to specify "I want lead for Christmas" but it works well.
> From: "laserlight@quixnet.net" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
I'm nigh unto saying damn the torpedoes. But I have a question. I want to
start playing FT. Besides FT itself, wqhat do I need to be up to date per
rules (Not necessarily designs)? Does MT add supplemental rules, or replace
certain rules, or both? What about the Fleet Books? Alll designs, or rules
revisions too? It can be daunting to think of needing many books at once
(although I've been offered help in that regard). I might suggest the
creation by GZG of a compendium - an advanced version of FT that
includes the revisions and additions of rules from the other books. Not only
would it help a rookie get into the game, it might be a handy reference for
you seasoned spacer.
2B^2
> From: "laserlight@quixnet.net" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
That's exactly what FT3 will be, when I get the time!! ;-)
For now, you need FT itself, and ideally FB1 if you can stretch that far (it
has some new rules, and the revised design system); you only really need to
add FB2 if you want the alien stuff. MT is out of print, but much of its
content is superceded by the two FBs (yes, before everyone says it, I KNOW
there is a bit of fighter stuff that hasn't been reprinted yet, but I'm sure
there are several listers who'll happily help you on that, and EVENTUALLY I'll
get the files over to Paul to put some PDFs on the website....)
If it helps, [SHAMELESS COMMERCIAL PLUG] we can offer all three books
(normally 8.00 UKP each) as a package for just 20 UKP plus p&p, through the
online store; it's NOT listed as an option on the store, it's normally
something I offer directly to newcomers who ask exactly this question -
but I'm hereby extending the offer to anyone on the list (and feel free to
pass it on to friends); to take it up, just order the three books normally on
the store site, but mention in the "comments" field about the
3-for-20-pounds offer - we'll make the price adjustment for you.
Also Spracht Jon:
> That's exactly what FT3 will be, when I get the time!! ;-)
Please please please please
and EVENTUALLY I'll get the files over to Paul to
> put some PDFs on the website....)
Woo hoo!
> If it helps, [SHAMELESS COMMERCIAL PLUG] we can offer all three books
I looked on the store site, I couldn't find the books listed. *grunt scratch*
Me no find......
If someone can guide me to the books, I'll happily do it on monday when I
return to the computer. This is a very attractive offer.
2B^2
ThAt MaN!
WelL sAiD!
we still play 40k-rt (modified) and use it in a lot of genres outside
the official universe.
most of the guys i know and game with for years like the basic system and
ignor the bs.
we did the same thing with the whfb rules-ignored the weirdness and
used them for medieval/dark ages/rennaissance games.
[quoted original message omitted]
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 11:43:12PM +0000, Ground Zero Games wrote:
Jon, have you considered farming the bulk of the project out to freelancers
that you know? I'm sure that between us, the ML members probably have at least
a few writing credits. It might be the fastest way for the Thrust Compilation
to get made.
PS: Buy my most recent book, _Iteration X Revised Conventionbook_ from
White Wolf today. Plug plug.;)
G'day Jon,
> then you can do so without some tw*t
So what exactly is a twut?;P
Hope everything's going well with you of late busy boy;)
Must say that those Jap ships look damn hot... I'll be getting a fleet pack
for Derek in a month or so for his birthday... unfortunately a
mega-fleet
pack was a bit beyond our means seeings as Derek's last driving practice ended
with the car being towed to the mechanic... Derek swears its the radiator
thermostat and not his fault though;)
Have fun
A twut is a twot that is not.
I'll stop there, either because I don't want to be forced to use a real crude
colloquialism, because I lack Dr.Seuss's creativity, or because I'm just lazy.
Take your pick of excuses, I've got plenty.
The ships do look very nice.
--Flak
On Sun, 27 Jan 2002 01:30:00 +1100
> Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
> G'day Jon,
G'day guys,
Bugger! That was supposed to got to Jon alone. If I could please plead with
you all not to start a thread on the trials of Derek learning to drive I'm
gonna break into his email and remove the incriminating evidence so I can
maybe keep his birthday present secret from Mr "I Always Find out What You're
Getting Me!"
Living in the vain hope!
<grin> Hmm, what's it worth to you? <VBG>
> On Sun, 27 Jan 2002 02:50:02 +1100 Beth.Fulton@csiro.au writes:
> At 11:04 26/01/02 -0500, you wrote:
How much is your life worth Glenn? Do know how much trouble Beth goes to
surprise me at birthdays and Christmas? As you might guess she doesn't have
much success and it's not because I try to find out, it's just a knack
:)
Of course I did not say this, I was never here.....................
Then are we to believe that the wombat is out of it's hole?
(A bad attempt by an American at adapting "cat out of the bag" into Aussie
terms, apologies all around.)
Mrs.Fulton needs to start setting up decoys then... It's what we had to do
with my father when I was growing up.
--Flak
> On 27 Jan 2002 at 10:03, Derek Fulton wrote:
> At 11:04 26/01/02 -0500, you wrote:
> At 12:35 28/01/02 +1100, you wrote:
Yeah, Right;P
> > Mrs. Fulton needs to start setting up decoys then...
Derek: Yeah, Right;P
Beth, how about just let Tom (or someone else with a similarly warped
sense of humor--ie not quite as warped as mine) pick for you? ;-)