Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

10 posts ยท Oct 12 1997 to Oct 15 1997

From: HRAZ71A@p... (MR DAVID E PETERS)

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:01:55, -0500

Subject: Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

Dear List Members:

I have interesting subject that I would like to bring up here on Status: RO

the list.  Since DSII/SGII deal much
with hi-tech forces, I would like to focus the attention to low-tech
forces a bit. Science Fiction is full
of stories of were hi-tech forces attempt to conquer a planet that
has low-tech forces or an interstellar
society that once had a very high tech base and regressed to low-tech.
  With some high-tech  items
still around bit, but used sparingly.

The example that I am going to use is the Fading Suns RPG, it has
a very good selection of low-tech items to high tech and a
interesting setting to fit DSII/SGII for miniatures battles.  The
rules
allow for high-tech and some low-tech forces, but how about doing
forces with mediviel tech. For
example in DSII you can create units for close-assault to simulate
that they are armed with swords, spears etc. by using the high-tech
examples to show what type of hand weapons and armor they are equipped with.
They could be militia, regular soldiers, or knights.
If they are using missiles such as crossbows, bows, or single-shot
muskets. Just figure out the range accordingly and designate their troop
quality.

And how about items like catapult, ballista, etc. these are the items that
should give you people on the list some food for thought.
 Should close-assaults be handled differentely when dealing with low-
tech forces with melee weapons.

I am done with my little speech and would be nice to talk about simple weapons
for a change.

      Sincerely

From: John Leary <john_t_leary@y...>

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:25:23 -0700

Subject: Re: Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

Status: RO

Mr.Peters,

I do not know if 'primative' combat would really be of interest
for any length of time.   After all, if we are talking really
primative, shooting the tribal chief ends the war! In the great empire of
Rome, what danger did a legion present to a WW2 Armored Infantry company, next
to nothing! In the not quite so primative (say 1812ish), shooting the officers
starting at 700 yards will end the usefulness of any unit long before they
become a danger to a 1990s squad.

The decision on the correctness of my comments will come from the people on
the net, I have no desire to offend, I just feel that the subject will not
have a long life on the web. Thanks,

From: Owen Glover <oglover@b...>

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:39:57 +1000

Subject: RE: Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

> Jon Leary wrote:

> Mr. Peters,

interest
> for any length of time. After all, if we are talking really

I could imagine some-one gaming the "Janissaries" type of world where
you have exactly that. Romans vs H&K G3s and M16s.

Still you would probably need to run the lo-techs in squads of 100!?
Where are my old 25mm Hinchcliffe ancients?

I guess it would be short lived in the bigger scheme of things but still
might be worth considering for some; that's what this list is for -
brainstorming and coming up with ideas. For example - morale would have
to play a much larger part for your lo-techs!

From: Joe Banderet <bigjoe@a...>

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:16:17 -0500

Subject: Re: Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

Status: RO

I think there IS a lot of Science Fiction dealing with relatively Low Tech
societies. The reasons for this are many (and several examples were given in
the original post). However, I think that if one wants to have a "medieval
horde" attack a "High Tech" squad, one might look into taking a Medieval set
of rules and adding higher tech equipment and
weapons, not vise-verse.  Just a thought.

> John Leary wrote:

> Mr. Peters,

From: Alex Williams <thantos@d...>

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:46:44 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

> On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Joe Banderet wrote:

Status: RO

> I think there IS a lot of Science Fiction dealing with relatively Low

In DSII, you can model ancient forces by giving them /very/ small
fractional FP's that apply when attacking higher tech equipment and standard
FP when fighting an equal. Similarly, they armours will have to
be downshifted in die-value (likely in an open shift) vs the
high-powered
weaponry. Also, and again, ranges will be fractional compared to modern
to high-tech weapons.

These things apply to SGII as well, or even moreso, since at the
squad level, well, /individual/ firepower has increased vastly.  Armour,
is no longer much of a concern because firepower /is/ so high, so the
Legionnaire is probably, individually, better armoured than most modern
militaries but maybe not future ones.

From: Robin Paul <Robin.Paul@t...>

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:30:56 +0000

Subject: Re: Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

Status: RO

A classic novel of this situation is Poul Anderson's "The High Crusade", a
sort of dead-pan comedy (DON'T watch the film version, it's really
dire). The Pournelle "Janissaries" situation, as has been mentioned, also
gives a
rationale for high tech versus low, as does "War of the Wing-men",
another old Anderson title (although I seem to remember that he suffers a lot
from
trans-oceanic title changes, so non-UK members may know these books
under different titles). I can see a situation where a ruling group with high
tech weapons have to stay their hands due to ammo/spares restrictions,
giving the low-techs a better chance; or they're acting as police and
aren't permitted to just blaze away at a crowd to get a single sniper. Perhaps
the other side has secret help (Special Circumstances on the job? Perhaps
behaving "in a way indistinguishable from magic").

Most players enjoy a bit of unfamiliar territory now and then, as long as they
don't find the rug pulled out from under them too often.

Cheers

From: Robin Paul <Robin.Paul@t...>

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:33:06 +0000

Subject: Re: Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

> At 11:07 PM 13/10/97 +0000, you wrote:
Status: RO

> A classic novel of this situation is Poul Anderson's "The High

        About 3 or 4 years ago- done as a "zany" comedy by some Germans
on a
medium/low budget with a British cast.  The storyline is mostly as much
per the book, but cut down and ending on the first Wersgorix planet. The
Wersgorix are recognisable from the book, and there language is represented by
English in a Scottish accent, and therefore incomprehensible to the
English- one of the very few funny things in the film.  Next time I'm in
Blockbuster I'll look to see if they still have it. As I said, it's VERY poor,
but if you're a fan of the book (as I am), then it's all we're going to get.

cheers Rob

From: campbelr@d...

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:07:32 +0000

Subject: Re: Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

Rob Paul <rpaul@worf.molbiol.ox.ac.uk>   said:

Status: RO

> A classic novel of this situation is Poul Anderson's "The High

There was a movie version? Who put it out and when?

Randy "Creative Financing is the key to any venture. Right John?" R. Hood
(Ret.)

From: Imre A. Szabo <ias@s...>

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:29:30 -0400

Subject: Re: Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

Status: RO

Low Tech in forces in DSII/SGII???

Sounds like the Zulu War to me. I don't think it would be very interesting in
DSII, but it could be fun in SGII.

From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@a...>

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:49:47 GMT

Subject: Re: Low Tech forces in DSII/SGII

On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:39:57 +1000, "Glover, Owen"
> <oglover@mov.vic.gov.au> wrote:

Status: RO

> I could imagine some-one gaming the "Janissaries" type of world where

After looking at this idea, for a Guns of the South scenario for SG2, I came
to the conclusion that either: 1) you'd need lots of the lower tech guys, or
2) you'd have to change the figure scale for the low tech guys. The thing is
that primitives (or seemingly primitives) would use radically different
tactics than SG2 and DS2 simulate.

I suspect that you might be better off modifying a colonial type game,
like Soldier's Companion, where radically different size/quality
differences have already been modelled. Mind you, I intend to do this with
American Civil War soliders, which weren't radically out of place in a
colonial rules set. I'm not sure how likely this would would work with more
modern weapons on one side of the conflict.

Also, I think it might work better with DS2 than SG2, since DS2 is a bit more
abstract. This is just a feeling, though.