Dirtside II rules question

Hello. This is to all the Dirtside II players out there. In the rules
manual it says that a GMS/H takes up 4 capacity points.  But what is the
firing arc for this weapon. Also, does the 4 points get multiplied by 3
for turret-mount, and by 2 for fixed mount?  Either way, this seems too
"cheap" for a powerful weapon like this.

> Chen-Song Qin wrote:

It should be fine to require it be mounted turreted or fixed-forward (or
fixed-other, depending on your tastes) with the standard space
multipliers.  That gives it a space in line with other 4-power weapons
(HEL/4, HVC/4).  There are several countermeasures that can affect
missiles that can't affect HVC/4s, for instance (ECM, reactive armour).

There is a field of thought that suggests vertically-launched missiles
should have a 360o arc of fire and take only the 2x multiplier for `fixed
upward' space. We leave this to individual choice as to whether to accept that
or not.:)

> On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Alexander Williams wrote:

Well, thanks for the info.

> Alexander Williams {thantos@alf.dec.com / zander@photobooks.com}

you play Renegade Legion? Or do you just convert RL stuff into Dirtside II?
Are there any other RL players on this mailing list?

> Chen-Song Qin wrote:

Actually, I play RenLeg in both its native system and in DSII. I really like
the ToO&E of the TOG, but I was always a bloodthirsty bastard.:)

> On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Alexander Williams wrote:

> Actually, I play RenLeg in both its native system and in DSII. I
:)

What kind of stats do you have for RL vehicles in DSII? A lot of people have
given them very weak stats because the models are very small compared to the
DSII line and to EPIC Space Marine.

As a owner of the rules for RL itself, I think the weapons are too weak for
the technology they are supposed to have. It takes forever to kill just a
medium tank! I personally think that the vehicles should last a lot shorter
than they do in RL. (it is much better in DSII where the average weapon can
kill the average tank with basically one shot, the game flows much faster)
Still, like you, I like the detailed TO&E they give
you for RL.  The TOG side uses what is apparently a battle-group type
organization for its Strike Legions.

> At 07:25 AM 12/26/96 +0000, you wrote:
        What do you mean by a battle-group type organization, that TOG
organizes its ground forces in a manner similar to naval ones?

        James

> Chen-Song Qin wrote:

In the few engagements I've used the DSII versions in, we've used the
conversions found on one of the web pages. Not bad; I still have to convert
the Ferrox Rex over. Fun in the sun

> As a owner of the rules for RL itself, I think the weapons are too

Actually, I get one-turn kills on RenLeg pretty easily; the difference
is that in RenLeg, you have the equivalent of seperate fire controls for the
direction the majority of your direct fire weapons are facing and missiles. To
get the same effect in DSII, just allow all weapons facing the target to fire
as one, just as if they were all `dual mounted,' ie. allow weapons of
different types to be `gang mounted' together. Missiles always get fired
seperately, which is a bit easier if you either assume they can be fired
during the same Action as the
direct-fire weaponry.  Once you make this change, targets in DSII go up
even more quickly than before; a MDC/4 + HEL/2 + APSW barrage as one
action, all turret-mounted, can be brutal, especially followed up with
two GMS/Ls in the same action.

In RenLeg, always be aware that you can fire multiple weapons at a single
target of opportunity. Carefully choosing the firing order can mean you cut
huge holes out of the armour that a second barage can take advantage of (such
as firing two large lasers followed by a Hammerhead Gauss round, the chances
are you're taking out a nasty hunk of undercut
armour).  I've considered toying with building RenLeg-like shields in
DSII, but I'm not sure I want to open it up to that kind of psychotic
fun.  :)

> On Thu, 26 Dec 1996, Alexander Williams wrote:

> In the few engagements I've used the DSII versions in, we've used the

Which web page is that? Can you give me the URL?

> armour). I've considered toying with building RenLeg-like shields in

Yea, that's another thing. I really hope someone can come up with rules for
shields for DSII.

> On Thu, 26 Dec 1996, JAMES BUTLER wrote:

> >Still, like you, I like the detailed TO&E they give

The TOG Strike Legions (read armored divisions) are composed of a number (~10)
of cohorts (read battalions), with the primary cohort being the largest and
most powerful, per Roman tradition. These cohorts are put
together, along with support elements into tailor-made Manuses (Manii?)
for each specific mission. This Manus organization is similar to the
kampfgruppe, or battle-group organization used in many modern (and WWII
German) mechanized forces.

> Chen-Song Qin wrote:

Sure can.

http://www.engr.trinity.edu/~mlangsdo/RPGs/DS2/

> Yea, that's another thing. I really hope someone can come up with

Well, if you want a naiive conversion:

Renegade Legion-like Grav Shielding:

Shields cause most weapons to either be absorbed, deflected or go astray when
targeting a shielded vehicle. HKPs, HVCs, and SLAM packs ignore shields either
because their projectiles are too large to be affected (HKP, HVC) or are
`dumb' warheads (SLAM packs). If a shielded vehicle is hit by a weapon
affected by its protection, roll a d10. On a 1 the attack penetrates during
the `flicker off' period, otherwise the shot has no effect.

To counter the effect of the shield the vehicle carrying them must be
`painted,' ie a infantry squad or vehicle with an `artillery spotter'
must make a successful HEL-like (all ranges are treated as `close') test
versus the target.  If its successful all attacks up to /the next
activation of the target vehicle/ ignore the effects of shields.  If the
painting test fails, there is no effect save the wasting of an action
for the firing vehicle/infantry.  /This test may be reattempted in the
same activation./

Grav Shields cost 250% of the BRP. There is no change in the cost of an
artillery spotting unit (50pts, IIRC).

---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes
---------------------------
From: owner-ftgzg-l@bolton.ac.uk at SMTPGATE
Date: 12/23/96 6:54PM
*To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk at SMTPGATE
Subject: Dirtside II rules question
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------

Text item:

Well, back to the original question. There is no space modifier for GMS

systems. They are assumed to be thrown onto the chasse in on an external pod,
so only the ammo & firing system needs to be stored. GMS systems are VERY
cheap in comparison to their capabilities because they are very basic systems.
 We
don't have most of the weapons & other systems in DSII today, but we do have
GMSs. Even developing countries have TOWs, just stick one on an APC & you're
ready to roll. As examples, just about every existing US
non-MBT/non-artillery
vehicles have some version with TOWs on them (M113, LAV-25, Bradley,
V-150,
etc). About the arc of fire, I've always assumed 360 degrees.

Thanks, Nils

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nils_A_Hedglin@ccm.fm.intel.com
I am Pentium of Borg. Division is futile. You will be approximated.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello. This is to all the Dirtside II players out there. In the rules
manual it says that a GMS/H takes up 4 capacity points.  But what is the
firing arc for this weapon. Also, does the 4 points get multiplied by 3
for turret-mount, and by 2 for fixed mount?  Either way, this seems too
"cheap" for a powerful weapon like this.

                              Chen-song

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