Dirtside II Damage Chits

We did a 40,000 point game drawing out of a mug, remixing after each draw.
Nobody minded here. A lot faster than rolling and looking on a
chart...

This message is for the folks at GZG or anyone else who has an answer. As I
get deeper into counting threory I'm getting more and more disturbed by the
chit system used in DSII for assessing damage. As you draw more chits the
number remaining in the bowl gets smaller and so the chances start to get
squewed as you draw them. Now the rules say that you should remix the chits
after each activation, but for those vehicles with a lot of weapons or a very
high weapons rating, they get the benefit of the squew while the others
suffer.
  The alternative is to re-mix after every draw, truly anoying...  So
for now I use a unpunched group and roll 1d20 and 1d8 as a grid. However I
think it would be much better if GZG created a new chart using percentile
dice. I would love to get a copy of such an animal. Phil P.

> This message is for the folks at GZG or anyone else who has an answer.
As I get deeper into counting threory I'm getting more and more disturbed by
the chit system used in DSII for assessing damage. As you draw more chits the
number remaining in the bowl gets smaller and so the chances start to get
squewed as you draw them. Now the rules say that you should remix the chits
after each activation, but for those vehicles with a lot of weapons or a very
high weapons rating, they get the benefit of the squew while the others
suffer.
> The alternative is to re-mix after every draw, truly anoying... So
However I think it would be much better if GZG created a new chart using
percentile dice. I would love to get a copy of such an animal.

I'm going to have to go on record saying `frankly, its not a problem.'
Meaningfully, the only differences you'll see in most engagements is that
units with large numbers of weapons with high powers become more and more
likely to get a *BOOM* result than those with lower
powers/numbers.  This passes my `reality check' mental model, in that
it seems intuitive that units with large numbers of powerful weapons
/should/ be more likely to ruin someone's day.

If there is a problem (one I consider rather minimal), its that larger weapons
are more likely to get a FIRER SYSTEMS OUT effect than smaller, but I consider
that an adequate counterbalance to the *BOOM* effect, so I'm happy in general.

In extremity, if it bothers you that much, you can go with the resultion
system in STARGRUNT II, converting Armour rating to a d? and treating the
damage that way.

> This message is for the folks at GZG or anyone else who has an

> The alternative is to re-mix after every draw, truly anoying... So
I would
> love to get a copy of such an animal.

If anyone is interested, I should have a Java applet on my web page soon that
simulates drawing damage chits.

Too bad you're not on AOL any longer. I wrote up a d% chart and placed it in
the wargames forum file server. I may (or may not have the file here, it'll
take some digging.......)

Gene
> ----------
As I
> get deeper into counting threory I'm getting more and more disturbed by
I
> would love to get a copy of such an animal.

Dice have no memory...

> On 03/20/97 12:02:03 you wrote:

Mine do, and they're sick and tired of me blaming my losses on them...

> This message is for the folks at GZG or anyone else who has an answer.
As I
> get deeper into counting threory I'm getting more and more disturbed by
I
> would love to get a copy of such an animal.

Phil, Some people like the chit system in DSII, some don't: we liked it, which
is why it is there; IMHO it is easier and more fun than consulting tables,
which is one specific thing we tried to avoid in DSII wherever possible. Sure,
you can do a dice chart if you want, and I guess many players have done so
already; we don't have one, but I'm sure someone on the list will help.

OK, so the distribution does skew a little if you don't put the chits back in
the pot straight away, but no worse than a system that (say) uses a card deck
of any sort that you don't shuffle after every draw. At the end of the day,
does it really matter? Also, both sides get the chance of suffering
the same advantage/disadvantages, so I'd be VERY surprised if it really
affected the overall game outcome in any practical sense. If the end result
of the game feels right, that is the main thing - I wouldn't worry too
much about the minutiae... After all, it's only a game.....< VERY BIG GRIN>
(dives for cover.....)

All the best,

> OK, so the distribution does skew a little if you don't put the chits

Thanks Jon, Somebody had to say that!

Just to add a little note to my colleague's comments, (hi, Jon, will try and
phone you in the next few days), I have always played Dirtside II with all the
chits in a mug or similar container. Whenever you need to draw, stick you hand
in and stir the chits around with your finger, then pull out the number you
need. After you've determined the results of the draw, just toss 'em back!!

This combines the quickness of pulling chits with the constant probability you
expect from dice.

Hope that helps, Mike Elliott, GZG (wishing he could get on the Net more
often...)
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Dirtside II Damage Chits
Author:  SMTP:owner-ftgzg-l@bolton.ac.uk/ at INTERNET
Date:    21/03/97 16:31

> This message is for the folks at GZG or anyone else who has an answer.
As I
> get deeper into counting threory I'm getting more and more disturbed by

> suffer.
I
> would love to get a copy of such an animal.

Phil, Some people like the chit system in DSII, some don't: we liked it, which
is why it is there; IMHO it is easier and more fun than consulting tables,
which is one specific thing we tried to avoid in DSII wherever possible.

Sure, you can do a dice chart if you want, and I guess many players have

done so already; we don't have one, but I'm sure someone on the list will
help.

OK, so the distribution does skew a little if you don't put the chits back in
the pot straight away, but no worse than a system that (say) uses a card deck
of any sort that you don't shuffle after every draw. At the end of the day,
does it really matter? Also, both sides get the chance of suffering the
same advantage/disadvantages, so I'd be VERY surprised if it really
affected the overall game outcome in any practical sense. If the end result of
the
game feels right, that is the main thing - I wouldn't worry too much
about the minutiae... After all, it's only a game.....< VERY BIG GRIN> (dives
for cover.....)

All the best, Jon (GZG).