Claus,
You've run across one of the SG2 controversies. The basic game makes crew
served weapons fired as if they were fired under firecontrol, and the typical
reading of the rule is that you roll QD
+ n x FCD (Fire Control Die) where n is the
number of weapons firing. This tends to make for inaccurate but high volume
fire if using basic fire control on 4 x.50 HMG.
Most of the people I know who've had
experience/knowledge of AA artillery (modern)
in the real world have suggested that it is fairly dangerous to infantry
(Anyone doubting this should try to locate a copy of the CF training
film "small arms in the anti-aircraft role" which
shows a PIVAD firing on a simulated column of vehicles and infantry). No slow
traverse, no reloading, lots of cutouts of men or soft skinned vehicles
litterally sawed in half. I know it scared the crap out of me as a gropos and
I fervently hoped NEVER to have to assault an ADA position.
Anyone who has seen Vietnam films of combat during Tet and has seen the little
quad M2HB mount firing knows that a main job of the crew was to keep it fed
with ammo (which it consumed prodigiously) but anything on the downrange side
was in a world of hurt. Yes, individual shot accuracy wasn't that high. Big
freakin deal, when you're putting out that much firepower and rounds are
possible ricocheting around too and the round itself will go through a tree or
a small berm and a hit in the hand can (sometimes) kill from shock.
I believe the following is how I would handle your situation:
For quad infantry support weapons (MGs etc) being fired over standard sights
(no fire control systems! and a sighting system and some locks on the traverse
and elevation don't count in my
books), roll QD + n x FP dice.
If the weapon is something like a 20mm HE firing weapon, it is rightly a
vehicle mounted heavy weapon (IIRC it was on a wheeled chassis
or perhaps an X mount). In this case, roll QD +
n x FCD where n is the number of barrels. This type of system may well have
traversal issues. OTOH, if it hits, I'd consider applying a single D8 impact
to everyone in the squad (sort of like an artillery round arriving). This
would cover the
effects of HE, splintering of nearby rocks/trees,
and the high ROF. It has a lower chance to hit than the HMG, but effects
everyone in the squad if it does (or at least gets a roll to affect everyone
in the squad).
That would be my approach. Yes, it makes the US halftrack with the quad M2HB
or some
german multiple-MG mounts rather ugly. But if
you're going to attack one of these as infantry without using at least a light
tank for cover, you've got issues. Better to call for some arty
or the every-present USAF and RAF ground
attack craft (if later war Western Europe).
Hope that helps.
Tomb.
søn, 2002-10-20 kl. 18:46 skrev Thomas Barclay:
> Claus,
Yes, what striked me was that theres was "paying" rules for constructing your
vehicles with multiple weapons, but nothing about firing them later
on.In my book it doesn't have to be accurate - it should work in a
manner that makes sense to how the weapon works, ie high volume fire;)
[...snip...]
> vehicles and infantry). No slow traverse, no
Must have been a scary sight indeed!
> Yes,
Yes, I remember the scene from SPR where they turn the twin 20mm gun
against the soldiers climbing on the tank - one of them sorta
disintegrates.. would have been even worse if a flakvierling was firing at
them;)
> I believe the following is how I would handle
Yes, makes sense!
> If the weapon is something like a 20mm HE
Yes, that might be a way to do it - but it would still be difficult to
hit anything, considering the fact that we still roll with a D4 as FCD, but
then again, we can just shift the die one or two times up if the gun seems to
have no effect.
[...snip...]
> Hope that helps.
Indeed it did! I haven't had any RL experience with those kinda guns (or any
gun for that matter) so it's hard to figure out how to make them work, besides
what I think is logic, ie a LOT of damage when two or more barrels are firing
at the same area with a huge amount of lead;)
On 20 Oct 2002 19:55:34 +0200, Claus Paludan <cpaludan@worldonline.dk>
wrote:
> Yes, what striked me was that theres was "paying" rules for
In my own house rules I allow the firing of multiple weapon mounts on a
vehicle. I don't specifically state this as a "rule" on my web page, but a
scenario (and soon to be two scenarios) allow it. I have the GZG VTOL 25mm
resin vehicles, and these have two guns, two missile packs and an RFAC. I
allow a single action to fire both weapons of the same type. The two guns (I
usually have them as GACs), or the two GMS/Hs, or the single RFAC. This
gives the VTOL a reason for the weapons it mounts. A player can either fire
both of a dual mount weapon at a single target, or fire one at one target on
the first action, and fire the second on the same or different target with the
second action.
In your case, I'd allow all 4 weapons to fire at once.
Now, with my rules I typically handle things a little differently for
"support" weapons and larger weapons. Tom suggests rolling QD + 4 FC or
FP dice, depending on the weapon.
For things like GACs and large weapons, I typically allow 1 roll per mount of
QD + FCD. In the case of my VTOL, this means that the player is making
two attacks with both GACs, so it has the chance of hitting with one and not
the
other (I suppose what I really _should_ do is roll one QD and have the
Firecon Dice rolled separately).
However, I also have Kryomek Grav/GEV vehicles I use as APCs. These have
twin
mounted rotary cannons/MGs. For these firing, I've always allowed QD +
FP Die
+ FP Die. This is what I'd allow for your quad guns in a machine
gun-like
setting. If you were firing your quad at a fast moving aircraft, I'd probably
more likely allow 4 QD + FCD rolls.
> Yes, I remember the scene from SPR where they turn the twin 20mm gun
That's exactly the image I had...
> Yes, that might be a way to do it - but it would still be difficult to
You can treat them as a machine gun, like the dual rotary MGs/cannons on
my
grav APCs. This would allow you to roll QD + D12 + D12 + D12 + D12
(assuming D12 Firepower). Okay, so maybe the firepower should even be higher
than a D12 to be totally realistic, but it would give you a reasonable effect.
On average you'd roll something like 30 points total divided by the range die.
Oh, and be sure to treat these as terror weapons! Any unit of Regular and
below have to test versus panic when fired on by this gun.
man, 2002-10-21 kl. 17:44 skrev Allan Goodall:
> In your case, I'd allow all 4 weapons to fire at once.
In this case I wouldn't "allow" it, they would _have to_ be fired at
once....
> other (I suppose what I really _should_ do is roll one QD and have the
Isn't that the same as Tom's suggestion?
> However, I also have Kryomek Grav/GEV vehicles I use as APCs. These
Yes, this makes sense!
> You can treat them as a machine gun, like the dual rotary MGs/cannons
This actually would make me think of going out to ba a flakvierling... pieces
of the russian army was all over the place.. lol!
> Oh, and be sure to treat these as terror weapons! Any unit of Regular
Yes, that would make sense as well - i would be scared sh**less!!
These are good ideas as well - I think we have some good points to work
on!