I make no claim if this is on topic or not...
White Wolf wants a fee to play it's game:
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/07/08/white_wolf_cuts_own_.html
Now, I could care *less* about White Wolf games, this is a very disturbing
idea.
If I have to have a copy of the rules for *every* player, even the just trying
out the game players, forget it. I'm walking away.
If I have to join the *fan club* to play a game with friends or write a new
senario (sp?) or design a new ship, I'm *running* away.
Jon "play the game not the rules" Tuffey wouldn't do this. That I know.
But, is this the future of the hobby?
But, is this the future of the hobby?
Mike
No, just those game company suits with a death wish.....)
Hmmm, I'm not sure about the interpretation the quoted site makes based on
White Wolf's statements. From the White Wolf quote: "In brief, White Wolf is
requesting that those who wish to charge players to play White Wolf games
(beyond standard fees at a convention) obtain a license to do so from us."
The way I would read this, is that if you charge beyond "standard fees at a
convention", in other words "making a profit", then they want a piece of the
action, and I can't say that I blame them. If you have a business (and a
business is about making money) in which you run, promote with their imagery,
etc., games based on White Wolf intellectual property, they feel they are
entitled to be compensated or have you cease and desist. I think another
direct quote from the WW statement supports this: "Yes, our games
are meant to be played and we encourage everyone to do so - but charging
players is stepping into a commercial arena and license agreements then come
into play."
If I were to sell a game based on some GZG rules, and had not entered into an
agreement with Jon, a guarantee Jon would, at the very least, be "displeased".
And if the economics of GZG permits a lawyer, I'm things sure for me could get
"unpleasant". Despite his unquestioned sainthood and abundant altruism, Jon is
not crazy. I would have stolen his intellectual property, for my own profit,
which he has heavily invested in and has value.
So bottom line, I don't read WW's statement as looking to get bucks from the
Saturday night gaming group who may have expenses to cover, or from games run
at your typical con. That WOULD be shooting themselves in the foot. Of
course, rampant game community ill-will based on possible
misinterpretation
of WW statement/intent could have pretty much the same effect.
That's one man's opinion anyway....
YMMV TANSTAFL
Regards, Martin Connell
P.S. I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. B-)
[quoted original message omitted]
So bottom line, I don't read WW's statement as looking to get bucks from the
Saturday night gaming group who may have expenses to cover, or from games run
at your typical con. That WOULD be shooting themselves in the foot. Of
course, rampant game community ill-will based on possible
misinterpretation
of WW statement/intent could have pretty much the same effect.
That's one man's opinion anyway....
P.S. I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. B-)
Granted but, the problem I've seen by the responses of those holding these
things (god only know why) is they are not making a profit. This seems more
like a back door way to enforce corporate control, it's left far too much in
the layer's interpretation.......Which is always a recipe for more lawyers.
Remember layers are a breed that will argue anything, it's what they do.
I really think everyone needs to chill out and sit back and watch what
happpens.... White Wolf could prove to be very reasonable in their treatment
of events....
Take a page from fandom...
Paramount is notorious for it's Nazi-esqe 'protection of their
intellectual property'.... and what do you have of it's fandom? you
have a history of two-three 'official' fanclubs that have mediocre
numbers and seems very quiet... There's hundreds of little local clubs, and a
number of large 'international' groups...
By comparison, Lucas doesn't seem to have such an image... I've heard that
they have vigilantly defended their rights... and they have their own official
clubs.... but the overall image in fandom is that fandom is supported, even
enjoyed buy Lucas... case in point... the 501st Imperial Legion is a
stormtrooper fan club that spans the globe... literally... it literally has
thousands of members... and the response from Lucas.... last year they became
'canon' elements of the Star Wars universe when they were mentioned by name
(the reference quotes the group name and moniker 501st Imperial Legion
'Vader's Fist') and this year they're place is even more cemented in lore with
the upcoming Battlefront 2 game (if one watches the trailer at the website the
specific reference is '...as word of the first advances reached the
Five-Oh-First...').
Personally I think that if a mega-giant like Lucas can cultivate such a
fan-friendly atmosphere while still protecting it's rights... I think
White Wolf can figure it out too... from what I've seen of their booths and
groups, they seem fan oriented...
Remember, even light is shaped by the darkness that surrounds it, and the true
crafters are seldom ever seen. Welcome to the shadows kid.
> Rrok Anroll writes:
> I really think everyone needs to chill out and sit back and watch what
So true. Consider me chilled.
> Rrok Anroll wrote:
> I really think everyone needs to chill out and sit back and watch what
I'll take a pill myself, thanks, but I'll still toss out my two cents (this
kinda rankles me on a base level)...
The largest problem with their entire contract (questionable legality as
a base aside) is the lack of clarification regarding those who charge in
order to run a game. While I cannot support their decision on moral grounds, I
am certian their initial intention was to make those who
charged above and beyond a reasonable fee for space/prop rental and
snackage in-situ. In other words they don't mind if you decide to hold a
LARP session in a local hall so long as the only money you're collecting
is to cover the actual rental of the hall. That in and of itself dosen't
constitute a challenge to their IP or their copyright (since you're not
profiting off the fees).
However, should you choose to charge extra above hall rental (for your august
presence running this mess) then you'd be profiting off their IP and they'd
want a cut like any good mobster.
But no, it's amazingly vauege.
As well, another facet is that of public/private preformances IE where
does LARPing fall into? Obviously if one is holding it in one's basement, than
it's private. But if one is renting out a hall, then does
that not constitute a public event? Actually, there are ways to run an event
in a public space and still class it as private. An anime club I was
associated with ran anime showcases of various tv shows. As the licencing
restrictions for the shows and movies specifically prohibited public viewing,
what they did was they rented out a small hall in a
college, and then allowed people to purchase the effect of a one-day
membership. The viewing room itself was then designated a private,
members only screening. Proceeds from the one-day memberships and a
small concession inside the viewing theatre were then put towards the rental,
and the purchase of fresh supplies for next month's concession. As well, one
could purchase a $20 membership good for a full year and providing free entry.
As there were several 'full day' showings that ran
from midafternoon till midnight (normal ending time was around 8pm),
considerable savings could be achieved by this method for the attendee.
The exact legality (as far as this mechanism skirted copyright) is certianly
playing to the letter and not the spirit of the law. This being said, this
showcase was being done when japanese animation was in it's infancy in north
america, and served well to increase the popularity and the breadth of anime
types that were brought over to north america and thus did much to increase
the fanbase to such a degree
that it helped make anime a viable large-scale commercial market by
showing new series to those already in the subculture, as well as exposing new
fans to the subculture. It should be noted that A) this
showcase system had been in place for 10+ years, and has as of about 9
months previous been ended due to dropping attendance and the increasing
prevalance of anime in commercial stores for purchase/rental, B) had at
the very least a tact approval of some industry bigwigs like Jerry Chu of
Bandai... or was that AD Vision (these companies have a significant
portion of the actual broadcast/distribution rights in north america,
and Jerry was one of the corporate VPs... yes, we did know him personally!)
and C) served to increase the fanbase significantly and keep those in the
fanbase from drifting off (IE keeping customers for the distributors to sell
product to!)
Alternatively, one could simply state that you are running a micro-con
every month, with only one game being offered...