When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

10 posts ยท Aug 18 1997 to Aug 20 1997

From: Groucho <paulf@d...>

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 17:17:25 -0400

Subject: When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

To all and sundry,

Just something to throw around, but I was wondering in relation to mass and
ship class but what makes a ship a Dreadnought i.e. any Capital ship can be a
Dreadnought, or must it start at a certain mass, and what makes a Carrier
(other than just having lots of fighter bays) I know it sounds like a strange
question but I just needed some outside input to clear up my mind.

tks

From: Joachim Heck - SunSoft <jheck@E...>

Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:19:21 -0400

Subject: Re: When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

> Steve Pugh writes:

@:) A carrier is normally defined as a ship that devotes some @:) proportion
of its available mass to fighters. The precise @:) proportion varies from
person to person but one third and one half @:) are popular choices.

Can we take a cue from modern wet navy practice? Modern "carriers" come in all
sizes, from destroyers with a helicopter to supercarriers
that carry dozens of planes (70+?).  How are these divided into
classes? What makes an escort carrier, or a light carrier? What do
the British call their small Harrier-carriers (ha) with the ramp thing
on the end? And in all these ships, what portion of the ship is dedicated to
handling the aircraft and what portion is for other purposes?

From: Steve Pugh <steve@p...>

Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:56:56 -0400

Subject: Re: When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

> Just something to throw around, but I was wondering in relation to

I guess you're asking this in connection with fighters and stuff?

Well, the consensus here in the past has been that if a ship has enough mass
then it can carry fighters. Hence, a dreadnaught is what ever you want to call
a dreadnaught and the line in FT about only carriers and dreadnaughts having
fighters is generally interpreted as only being true for the standard designs.

A carrier is normally defined as a ship that devotes some proportion of its
available mass to fighters. The precise proportion varies from person to
person but one third and one half are popular choices.

Cheers,

From: Ground Zero Games <jon@g...>

Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 13:37:17 -0400

Subject: Re: When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

> To all and sundry,

"Dreadnought" or "Superdreadnought" are just useful labels we use to
(roughly) define the overall size/mass of ship classes. A DN or SDN is
generally the largest line-of-battle (ie: non-carrier) ship type in
normal service (excluding superships), and is the next major step up in size
from a Battleship. The terms "Heavy Battleship", "Battle Dreadnought" or
"Light Dreadnought" are also used to indicate a ship somewhat bigger than a
standard Battleship but not quite in the DN/SDN size.

A carrier, again by a very loose definition, is any ship that devotes most of
its available mass to fighter capacity rather than other weaponry; some
players have house rules as to the required% (I feel that at least
50-60%+
of mass devoted to fighter bays is about right).

From: Christopher Weuve <caw@w...>

Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:56:18 -0400

Subject: Re: When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

On Aug 19, 1997 at 10:56:56 AM, "Steve Pugh" <mafb90@pop.dial.pipex.com>

wrote:

> Well, the consensus here in the past has been that if a ship has

> want to call a dreadnaught and the line in FT about only carriers and

I have some affection for FASA's _Renegade Legion_ system, where mass
determines the class of the warship. So, for example, you have Frigate,

Destroyer, Cruiser, Battleship, with carriers of a similar mass being tagged
as Frigate-class carrier, Cruiser-class carrier, etc.  Since all
warships can carry fighters, the main difference between a "carrier" and a
non-carrier is
that carriers don't have spinal mounts. I can't remember if there is a limit
on the number of embarked ships a non-carrier can carry.

Incidently, as I think I have said on this list, _Renegade Legion_, for
all its faults, is perhaps the only game I have run across that is consistant
in its explanation as to why both fighters and battleships are used in large
numbers. The explanation was published in an essay in _Renegade Legion:
Prefect_.

From: db-ft@w... (David Brewer)

Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 17:03:30 -0400

Subject: Re: When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

In message <199708191519.LAA05034@sparczilla.East.Sun.COM> Joachim Heck
> - SunSoft writes:

> What do

"Through-deck Command Cruisers"

--
David Brewer

From: Donald Hosford <hosford.donald@a...>

Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 03:22:51 -0400

Subject: Re: When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

> Joachim Heck - SunSoft wrote:

The lesson to be learned from modern navies (in a space setting...), is that a
ship is whatever you want to call it. That may disturb some peaple... Go ahead
and follow modern naval practices if you want, just remember that you are not
limited by them.

From: Jonathan white <jw4@b...>

Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 05:54:27 -0400

Subject: Re: When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

> At 11:19 AM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote:

                         TTFN
                                        Jon

From: Oerjan Ohlson <oerjan.ohlson@t...>

Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:38:02 -0400

Subject: Re: When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

> On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Christopher Weuve wrote:

> I have some affection for FASA's _Renegade Legion_ system, where mass

I don't think this is entirely correct. The ship's class seems to be based on
the amount of power generated by the ships engines; but it is perfectly
possible to have a Destroyer with a larger mass than a Frigate (Destroyers
being "smaller" than Frigates in Renegade Legion). IIRC the basic Renegade
"Frigate" class in the Leviathan rules is smaller than one of the TOG
"Destroyers", as measured in mass used.

'Course, the way my memory behaves these days... :/

Later,

From: Aaron Teske <ateske@H...>

Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:33:45 -0400

Subject: Re: When is a Dreadnought a Dreadnought

Excerpts from FT: 19-Aug-97 Re: When is a Dreadnought a.. by
"Christopher Weuve"@wiza
> Incidently, as I think I have said on this list, _Renegade Legion_,

Well, don't keep us in suspense.... ^_^