Here are a couple of points that fascinate me:
Infantry attacked with a 20-30mm RFAC take hits rolling d8 impact.
Infantry attacked with a HAMR (12.7mm probably) take hits rolling d12.
Infantry hit
with a SAW firing (presumably) a 4-8mm projectile take hits rolling d10
impact. The same d8 Impact is applied if I get hit by an RFAC/2... a big
ass
penetrator like that fired from the GAU-30 on the A-10. I pretty much
think one of these would leave a softball sized hole through any infantryman.
As
it is, if the troops have good armour (d8), it's got about a 50/50
chance of doing nothing to them.
A HAMR is more deadly to light armour than an RFAC which I assume is
patterned somewhat after a Bushmaster or other chain gun - which is for
killing light armour!
An RFAC with enhanced (which I assume means more than 2183 average) FC rolls
d8 + quality to attack infantry. If this is something like a bushmaster,
that might make sense. If it is a Vulcan... that seems kind of weak.
Especially when a SAW rolls d10 for FP. Seems to me I know which I'd choose
to be shot at with - I've seen the Vulcan in action vs. infantry mock
ups. Death incarnate.
The system kind of fenced itself into a corner by doing d10 or d12 impact from
personal weapons, when autocannons and such get as low as d10 (actually d8
when firing at infantry because it uses the dispersed targets rule). Even if
it was d10, it is significantly less than would be just, given a d10 from a
rifle!
The same is true on the firepower front. Which would you rather have: A
manually fired SAW rolling d10 or conceivably d12 for FP, or a basic fire
control RFAC rolling D6? The manually fired SAW will be loosely equivalent to
the SAW of today (faster RoF maybe, better accuracy, but limited by the
human). The basic FC of 2183 should dwarf our FC of today, and I'm reasonably
sure that a Vulcan backed by modern FC (even if it is an optical sight!) is
way worse to have pointed in the direction of your squad than a single SAW....
only the game doesn't reflect that well.
There would, I figure, be several ways to address these several points:
1) Rewrite the weapons so basic impacts are not d8s or d10s to allow the low
end ACs and stuff a more just shake. This is of course a ground up solution
and would involve a new set of weapons tables, though not necessarily any
change in the mechanics.
2) Allow ACs to get their vs. vehicles impact (though this is still a
shortcoming given the impact of the HAMR or the d10 for an AAR) when firing
vs. infantry. This isn't a full solution, but it at least helps a bit to
redress an imbalance.
3) On the firepower side, assign an FP rating to small RFACs and GACs. Use
this in place of FC when firing at infantry units. I'd suggest d10 for RFACs
and d12 for GACs. (or 2d6 and 2d8 if you are willing to diverge a bit from
standards).
4) If the FP/FC die is more than twice the defenders die, then use
double the impact of the heavy weapon (it is a contact hit rather than a
fragmentation hit). This means in the case of an RFAC, use either 2d8 (if
sticking to the original dispersed targets rulings) or 2d10. Of course, if
multiple casualties are inflicted, only one is resolved as a contact hit.
Just some ideas to try to straighten out the roll of the RFAC and GAC. As it
is now, ror firing at infantry, I'd surely rather have a guy with a
non-stabilized, non-sighted SAW firing for d10 FP and d10 impact than a
guy with a stabilized, sighted RFAC firing for guidance FC (d6 to d10... at
max equal to the SAW) and d8 impact.
> Just some ideas to try to straighten out the roll of the RFAC and GAC.
As it
> is now, ror firing at infantry, I'd surely rather have a guy with a
Good ideas, and I absolutely agree with the sentiment.
Here's another one tossed out at you.
There are two different questions being discussed here. The first is about the
rate of fire of the SG universe autocannon type weapons (ie a
bushmaster vs a vulcan - obviously the vulcan is going to dump a LOT
more rounds downrange) and the damage caused when these weapons hit infantry.
The "slow" firing weapons have a lower chance of actually hitting a dispersed
infantryman, simply by virtue of the lower number of rounds impacting the
target area and the fact that they are being aimed at the area of the squad,
rather than individual people (which is why the HAMR
should be so much more effective vs. infantry targets - it only hits ONE
at a time).
Their damage is taken to be that of the explosive effect of the rounds. Kind
of like grenades. And that makes sense. It doesn't account for the odd time
that some grunt takes a 30mm through the chest, but as an abstract mechanism
it isn't too bad.
But for the fast firing weapons, there is a LOT more chance of guys actually
being hit, and smushed, by the rounds. Same with GACs which are specifically
designed to fire lots of rounds.
How about this:
Just as we have 25mm bushmaster type weapons and 25mm vulcan type weapons now,
which would have different firepower ratings, you could use different type
weapons in SG. The "fast" weapons would have firepower of d12 versus infantry,
and the "slow" weapons would have their regular die. This is basically what
Tom suggested, but I would then add that certainly a hit from these weapons
should do more damage than a hit from a SAW. So if infantry get hit by one of
these big weapons, their armour is reduced by one die type. OR, they get no
armour save at all. You just do the opposed range vs. firepower rolls, and if
damage is suffered by the target unit, they don't have any chance of saving it
with their armour. If your weapons are limited by the low FC numbers, it means
that while there won't be that many hits, the ones that do hit will ALWAYS
kill. I don't think this will be too overpowering, as the vehicle weapons that
are designated as "fast" (and use the d12 firepower die instead of the FC die)
are still only going to be using two die for their attack, and still limited
by the quality of the firer.
This gives them more punch, but not TOO much more punch.
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Thomas.Barclay wrote:
> Infantry attacked with a 20-30mm RFAC take hits rolling d8 impact.
Infantry
> attacked with a HAMR (12.7mm probably) take hits rolling d12. Infantry
Actually all of the Battle Field Used 30mm cannons are not the same
cartridge as the GAU-8 (not 30, its a model number, not a calibre
indicator). They have far less propellant behind them. Be careful one.30
calibre (or in this case 30mm) is not the same as another.30 calibre.
for example, .30 cal carbine (nominally the same calibre as .30-06 or
.303 brit. Both of the rifle cartridges (.30-06 and .303) have far more
velocity and energy than the.30 carbine. (2200fps and a 160 grain bullet vs
1800fps and a 100 grain bullet).
Your 30 mm chain gun is going to probably have less rounds out per second than
a saw is going to spit. Where the difference should be made up on is range and
penetration.
> one of these would leave a softball sized hole through any
> An RFAC with enhanced (which I assume means more than 2183 average) FC
One is better off at shooting at infatry with the saw's on board and HE than
with a 30mm cannon.
> The same is true on the firepower front. Which would you rather have:
A
> manually fired SAW rolling d10 or conceivably d12 for FP, or a basic
The thing with the Vulcan is that it should be worth 3-4 RFAC 1s. The
Russian ZSU-23 Shilka uses 4 water cooled 23mm to lay the same amount of
firepower out. When a Vulcan type system is placed, build it as 4
RFAC-1s. A 20mm multi barrel eats up far more ammo space than a single
barrel 20mm cannon.
You're trying to make the superadvanced weapons of Stargrunt even MORE like
their primitive [i.e. modern] counterparts? To what end? Are you going to next
take some vietnam game and try to make all their weapons work more like
flintlocks and blunderbusses? If it really bothers you, I'd suggest the
solution to your problem is to change the names of the weapons around until
their relative stats are more to your liking instead of changing the whole
system around the weapons.
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Thomas.Barclay wrote:
Infantry
> attacked with a HAMR (12.7mm probably) take hits rolling d12. Infantry
A
> manually fired SAW rolling d10 or conceivably d12 for FP, or a basic
Use
> this in place of FC when firing at infantry units. I'd suggest d10 for
As it
> is now, ror firing at infantry, I'd surely rather have a guy with a
at max
> equal to the SAW) and d8 impact.