Being both a wargamer AND a role player, I submit the following with apologies
to half my friends:
Top 10 Reasons Wargaming is Safer that Role Playing
10. Wargames are for the most part kept within the bounds of a board or table.
A RPG can sprout up anywhere.
9. Wargames USUALLY only gather 2 geeks at one place at one time (3 if you use
a referee). With an RPG, the number of nerds is limited only by the
GM's organizational skills.
8. Wargamers USUALLY learn something about real historical events. Try writing
a paper for history class on the Seventh Dynasty of the Wizards of Pendathel.
7. The collapse of your left flank, while a serious matter, is usually less
devastating than the death of your alter ego.
6. Over-ambitious wargamers attempt to command entire divisions.
Over-ambitious role players entertain delusions of deity.
5. Not many people delve into satanic spells while looking for a way to defeat
Napoleon's Old Guard.
4. Wargamers seldom insist that their friends refer to them as "Melara the
Wood Elf."
3. Alienated teens rarely have access to real Panzer Divisions.
2. To the uninformed, the phrase "Wargames" conjures up images of Matthew
Broderick and Computers. The phrase "Role Playing" conjures up images of
"Mistress Dominixa" and leather.
1. When wargamers act out their hobby, it is called "Historical
Re-enactment," and is considered educational. When Role players do the
same
thing, it is called a "LARP," and 20/20 does a special report warning
parents about it.
Oh, great, not that the reoccurance of the SST thread was enough, you have
to start this holy war... ;->=
Q: How do you get RPG'ers and wargamers in harmony?
A: Start a convo on cardboard crack.
The_Beast
PS. Liked SST:tm, was majorly disappointed with MTM, which STILL looks like
a reference to Mary Tyler Moore. ;->=
> On 16-Mar-00 at 01:49, Brian Bilderback (bbilderback@hotmail.com) wrote:
Obviously you don't play Fantasy Rules!
Hmmmm, maybe my stands of 15mm orcs would work as hordes of low tech aliens
for SG.:) We'd have to play ammunition rules, otherwise
it would resemble a bad sci-fi movie far too much.
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 devans@uneb.edu wrote:
> Oh, great, not that the reoccurance of the SST thread was enough, you
now all we have to do is start the gun control argument, and possibly an
america-vs-britain one, and we can bring the list into meltdown -
unless, of course, GZG gives in to our demand for ONE MILLION DOLLARS! what's
that? oh, okay: ONE BILLION DOLLARS!
tom a
***
....and we can bring the list into meltdown - unless,
of course, GZG gives in to our demand for ONE MILLION DOLLARS! what's that?
oh, okay: ONE BILLION DOLLARS!
***
Truth? YOU CAN'T STAND THE... oh, sorry, make that the heat...
Here's one: FB2 on the way, BDS on hold.
*where's a non-friable asbestos-lined hole when you need one?*
The_Beast
On 16-Mar-00 at 13:25, Tom Anderson
(thomas.anderson@university-college.oxford.ac.uk) wrote: > On Thu, 16
Mar 2000
> devans@uneb.edu wrote:
I'll even one up that. We are going to start all this unless GZG gives in to
our demand of a whole fleet of starship miniatures to go with FBII.
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:48:07 PST, "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> 9. Wargames USUALLY only gather 2 geeks at one place at one time (3 if
I've run Call of Cthulhu games with as much as 13 players. The largest non
LARP game I've seen was 25. LARPs can go into the hundreds...
> 8. Wargamers USUALLY learn something about real historical events. Try
Obviously you haven't been playing with our group. *S* I've had to research
1920s history, and another friend set very historic games in the Georgian era.
> 7. The collapse of your left flank, while a serious matter, is usually
Unless the collapse of your left flank during an RPG results in the death of
your alter ego, in which case you get the worst of both worlds (yep, this
happened in a CoC game... *S*).
> 4. Wargamers seldom insist that their friends refer to them as "Melara
No, but I haven't seen many roleplayers goosestepping and yelling "Seig,
heil!" in public! *L*
> 3. Alienated teens rarely have access to real Panzer Divisions.
As opposed to alienated roleplaying teens who have access to magic spells?
> 2. To the uninformed, the phrase "Wargames" conjures up images of
Actually, to the uninformed the phrase "Wargames" conjures up guys in
camouflage running around shooting paintballs at each other; they consider
them gun nuts who are just THIS far away from taking out a McDonald's.
Meanwhile, roleplaying conjuring up leather and bondage gear? Uh... well,
yes... and as recent magazine articles have shown, this is becoming socially
acceptable. In fact you get a wider range of people in Toronto walking into
Northbound Leather than you do walking into Crossed Swords. *S*
And I do NOT want to see the average wargamer in PVC rubber pants! *L*
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:23:36 +0000 (GMT), Tom Anderson
> <thomas.anderson@university-college.oxford.ac.uk> wrote:
> now all we have to do is start the gun control argument, and possibly
Uh, is that US/Canada billion (i.e. 1,000 million) or British billion
(i.e.
1,000,000 million)? *G*
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:48:07 PST, "Brian Bilderback"
> <bbilderback@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've run Call of Cthulhu games with as much as 13 players. The largest
I organized a convention RPG twice with over 100 RPGers and a dozen GMs in a
zoned dungeon. The naval battle between parties was most interesting. My
largest war game involved real troops but we called it training. Andy A
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 devans@uneb.edu wrote:
<mode="extreme sarcasm">
Oh boy, a new gun control thread. It won't be the same, though - last
time, Full Metal Atkinson was here, frothing and foaming for the NRA
side...
And us-vs-them nationalism, too. Very cool... those and SST - all the
hot-button threads going at once! Who wants to start?
</mode>
:>
(Anyone heard from Mr.Atkinson lately? Last heard, I think he was in the
former Yugoslavia somewhere...)
Not really trolling,:>
Brian Burger:
> <mode="extreme sarcasm">
How about "Gun control means, when you aim at Paul Verhover, you
hit him where you intended to--at least with the first few
rounds, before he starts writhing...."?
On second thought, let's kill this thread.
> (Anyone heard from Mr. Atkinson lately? Last heard, I think he
He is/was in Germany and is not expecting to be back in the
States for several months (he implied that he hopes to make next GZG ECC).
Obviously you missed my inclusion of the word USUALLY where that would be an
issue. ;-)
Brian B
----Original Message Follows----
From: Roger Books <books@mail.state.fl.us>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Wargames Vs. RPG's
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:38:33 -0500 (EST)
Obviously you don't play Fantasy Rules!
Hmmmm, maybe my stands of 15mm orcs would work as hordes of low tech aliens
for SG.:) We'd have to play ammunition rules, otherwise
it would resemble a bad sci-fi movie far too much.
Roger
----Original Message Follows----
From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@interlog.com>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Wargames Vs. RPG's
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:15:24 -0500
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:48:07 PST, "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> 9. Wargames USUALLY only gather 2 geeks at one place at one time (3 if
I've run Call of Cthulhu games with as much as 13 players. The largest non
LARP game I've seen was 25. LARPs can go into the hundreds...
BB: Which, I believe, was my point.....
> 8. Wargamers USUALLY learn something about real historical events. Try
Obviously you haven't been playing with our group. *S* I've had to research
1920s history, and another friend set very historic games in the Georgian era.
BB: No, But I HAVE run/beeen in campaigns set in Vietnam, the modern
day, the 1920's, the 1930's, and in Renaissance France. Again, this was just a
generalization for the sake of humor. Perhaps I shouldn''t have bothered.
> 7. The collapse of your left flank, while a serious matter, is usually
less
> devastating than the death of your alter ego.
Unless the collapse of your left flank during an RPG results in the death of
your alter ego, in which case you get the worst of both worlds (yep, this
happened in a CoC game... *S*).
BB: Whee, sign me up. *l*
> 4. Wargamers seldom insist that their friends refer to them as "Melara
No, but I haven't seen many roleplayers goosestepping and yelling "Seig,
heil!" in public! *L*
BB: true, but then, that behavior is not relegated to just wargamers in SOME
parts of the world, sad to say.
> 3. Alienated teens rarely have access to real Panzer Divisions.
As opposed to alienated roleplaying teens who have access to magic spells?
BB: Actually, I had in mind as opposed to alienated teens in general with
access to guns, knives, explosives. That DOES happen, you know.
> 2. To the uninformed, the phrase "Wargames" conjures up images of
Actually, to the uninformed the phrase "Wargames" conjures up guys in
camouflage running around shooting paintballs at each other; they consider
them gun nuts who are just THIS far away from taking out a McDonald's.
Meanwhile, roleplaying conjuring up leather and bondage gear? Uh... well,
yes... and as recent magazine articles have shown, this is becoming socially
acceptable. In fact you get a wider range of people in Toronto walking into
Northbound Leather than you do walking into Crossed Swords. *S*
And I do NOT want to see the average wargamer in PVC rubber pants! *L*
BB: All of which seems like good material for a rebuttal top 10 list, which I
shall begin work on shortly (I DID, after all, say I am guilty of BOTH
hobbies). On the other hand, given the reception my attempts at humor
have received so far, maybe that's not such a good idea.
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:37:53 PST, "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On the other hand, given the reception my attempts at humor have
*L* I think you miss the point. I thought your list WAS funny! I did the
rebuttals as I did because I couldn't think of anything else to fill in the
other items in a top ten list. *S*
*whew* Sorry for the misunderstanding. Ok, I feel better and sillier at the
same time...
Brian B
----Original Message Follows----
From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@interlog.com>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Wargames Vs. RPG's
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:20:11 -0500
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:37:53 PST, "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
wrote:
*L* I think you miss the point. I thought your list WAS funny! I did the
rebuttals as I did because I couldn't think of anything else to fill in the
other items in a top ten list. *S*
> On 16-Mar-00 at 18:43, Brian Burger (yh728@victoria.tc.ca) wrote:
what's
> > that? oh, okay: ONE BILLION DOLLARS!
I would but my major fun on the gun control issue is pointing out that the
statistics pointed to by both sides were done by people that had conclusions
drawn before they ever started their "research". It's rather amazing, rabid
gun owners and equally rabid gun haters cannot form a coherent arguement when
you take their statistics away from them. I do wonder though if this isn't
what has happened in the US as a whole, and maybe even worldwide. Logic isn't
necessary, just use a statistic that supports your arguement.
> the US as a whole, and maybe even worldwide. Logic isn't
"78% of statistics are made up on the spot."
To get the full effect of this, you should use in in a conversation long
enough that you can later remind people, "86% of statistics...."
I believe it was Mark Twain who said,
"There are lies. There are damn lies. And there are statistics."
--Greg
> On 16-Mar-00 at 18:43, Brian Burger (yh728@victoria.tc.ca) wrote:
<snip>
> I would but my major fun on the gun control issue is pointing out that
> I would but my major fun on the gun control issue is pointing out that
anyone ever read the book how to lie with statistics?
"treat your plane like your women, jump in them about 5 times a day and take
'em
to heaven and back." -Captain FlashHeart
> I believe it was Mark Twain who said,
I took a stats course at university. The prof started the very first lecture
off by writing that on the board, even before he introduced himself. Then he
proceeded for the next four months to show us why it is true.
Good course.
> I believe it was Mark Twain who said,
Personally I always like the quote (sorce unknown):
"Statistics are like bikinis - what they reveal is interesting, but what
they conceal is vital!"
> And I do NOT want to see the average wargamer in PVC rubber pants! *L*
ROFL...
Hear, hear!
I wholeheartedly second that motion, Alan.
Heh.