I have been thinking more about the Vertical Damage Weapon--you
may have heard the gears grinding--and I've come up with two
options: a) a cutter beam does 1d6 like a PTorp, but vertically. If you get to
the end of a column with one shot, you do 1 threshold at
5+; if you knock out two columns in one shot, you do a 4+
threshold, etc.
b) Roll as Beam dice but also roll 1d6 for location. 1-3 is
first track (ie armor, if the ship has it), 4-5 is 2nd, 6 is
reroll; reroll 1-3 is 3rd track, 4-5 is 4th track, 6 is 5th track
(last hull row for an armored ship).
> a) a cutter beam does 1d6 like a PTorp, but vertically. If you
This seems too powerful in my book. On a large ship, those 5+ or 4+
thresholds are going to be unbalancing.
> b) Roll as Beam dice but also roll 1d6 for location. 1-3 is
This is kind of a cool idea.
> >a) a cutter beam does 1d6 like a PTorp, but vertically. If
It's only unbalancing if the cost is wrong. Say a cutter beam
has range 12" and costs 10 mass and 30 points--is it still
unbalancing? How about 20 mass and 60 points?
Note also that against an armored ship you have a 1 in 3 chance
of doing a threshold (and it should have been a "6" not a "5+", I
misspoke in my original post) and you can't do a 5+ unless the
ship has lost a hull row (because you can't get more than 6 damage at a time
and it always comes from an undamaged column if there are any). Once a ship
gets to its third hull row, though, it's done for.
> >b) Roll as Beam dice but also roll 1d6 for location. 1-3 is
thanks! I'm mildly surprised that you didn't read my mind again.
You're slipping, Schoon--or are you designing more models to the
detriment of my budget?
G'day guys,
> b) Roll as Beam dice but also roll 1d6 for location. 1-3 is
I don't mind the concept, but they'd have to be mighty RARE weapons, I'd
REALLY hate to have to roll location dice for more than a couple of hits
per turn.
Just my two razoos.
Beth
> I don't mind the concept, but they'd have to be mighty RARE
Well, Beth, given the way you roll dice, you might as well stick to beams
anyway.
G'day,
> Well, Beth, given the way you roll dice, you might as well stick
Them'd be fightin' words if they weren't so true;)
Beth
> -----Original Message-----
-----End Original Message-----
a) may be too powerful depending on range and cost. In my original proposal, I
considered a straight d6, but thought that it provided too many thresholds
early. So I went with 3 Beam dice.
b) may be too weak depending on how you handle threshold checks. If you still
have hull in the 1st row but your Cutter Beam removes all hull boxes
in the third row, do you do a threshold check at 6 or 4+? If at 6, the
weapon is less powerful than a standard Beam of the same class (as it will
take longer to reach a threshold check). If not, is the ship destroyed if you
destroy all the hull boxes in the last row even if there are still hull boxes
in the rows above? If handled in the second method, they are less powerful
than regular beams if only a few are used, but more powerful if many are
massed together. How do you handle this weapon in regard to the Sa'Vasku. I
assume that if there is 2 damage tracks left and the location calls for the
3rd damage track it would be applied to the second.
> > a) a cutter beam does 1d6 like a PTorp, but vertically. If
With rerolls, average is 2.4 damage per hit--I'd want something
that is somewhat more likely to do a threshold to an undamaged ship.
> b) may be too weak depending on how you handle threshold
4+
> take longer to reach a threshold check). If not, is the ship
No but you take thresholds at 3+. Of course, this isn't very
likely except for small ships.
> Sa'Vasku. I assume that if there is 2 damage tracks left and
Yes
> On Wed, 02 August 2000, Beth Fulton wrote:
> I don't mind the concept, but they'd have to be mighty RARE weapons,
I've been following the vertical damage discussion. The problem I have with it
is that it seems like a game mechanic in search of a justification. The hull
damage tracks in the latest version of FT go left to right, up then down,
simply because that's how they represent the strength of a ship's hull and
it's innate protective capacity. It doesn't represent Renegade Legion style
armour, with it's "drill down" effect.
I guess what I'm saying is that a "verticle damage" weapon to simulate a
large spinal mount, drill-through-the-ship-with-one-big-hole weapon
might work with the old FT system of many different rows of hull boxes, but I
think it goes outside the scope of the Fleet Book rules when trying to apply
to ships with only 4 rows, maximum.
If you REALLY want to simulate weapons that punch deep holes without
doing THAT much hull damage, you have to go back and re-think the weapon
system. What is it, and what does it do? Is it a B5 Shadow-style huge
cutting beam? Is it a big rock fired at hyper velocity? Is it a big pulse of
energy fired from a HUGE spinal mount weapon? Consider what it's supposed to
be, and what the damage is supposed to do. Small hole that goes all the way
through the ship? BIG hole that goes all the way through the ship? What does
it do to the hull and what does it do to the systems in front of it?
One option: a needle beam like weapon that can target a specific ship system
for a threshold check, but also does hull damage on the way through.
Another option: a system that does a fair bit of damage, but due to it being
localized maybe on the first 1D6 systems check for thresholds if a threshold
check is called for.
A third option: come up with a weapon that does HORRIBLE amounts of damage,
like perhaps a class 6 beam weapon, but requires a certain recharge level. Or
fires a big rock that could be avoided.
But personally, I think "vertical damage" goes against the design of the game
system.
I think the only place were vertical damage is real is against armor. I love
the KV vs PH interaction. An interesting Idea might be a EMP penatrator it
goes 2 levels down through hull or armor and causes a theshold at the leval of
penatration. That would be a level 2 on an unarmored ship, a level 1 on a
armored ship and only the loss of 2 armor boxes on ship with PH type armor
layers. Andy A
[quoted original message omitted]
> It's only unbalancing if the cost is wrong. Say a cutter beam
OK. Fair enough. Sorry, but I'm so used to "uber-weapons" proposals
without adequate balance that I sometimes jump in before all the cards are on
the table.
> Note also that against an armored ship you have a 1 in 3 chance
1 in 3 is still about a 33% chance of causing a ship to make a check on every
system. That's still an appreciable effect.
> thanks! I'm mildly surprised that you didn't read my mind again.
> Laserlight wrote:
> I have been thinking more about the Vertical Damage Weapon--you
No, but I saw the smoke rising <g>
> --and I've come up with two options:
With the least-damage check at a 5+, it needs to be rather big - having
a 50% chance of inflicting a "2nd-row" threshold on, say, a Komarov or
Yu'Kas each it is *extremely* powerful. If it is taken at a 6+ instead,
it is merely *very* powerful :-/ Of course, it all depends on what
range and hit probabilities you're thinking of!
> b) Roll as Beam dice but also roll 1d6 for location. 1-3 is
First, as Beth pointed out - that's three *consecutive* dice to
evaluate a single weapon's fire. That's as many as in Warhammer :-(
Second, what happens if you destroy the entire 4th row without having
destroyed the upper rows? If this damage destroys the ship, never
*EVER* let Aaron use this weapon - three sixes in a row lets him take
out any heavy cruiser with a single hit. OK, he can take out a heavy
cruiser with a single Class-1 battery as well, but at least he has to
work a bit to do it that way...
Regards,
> >--and I've come up with two options:
I meant "1 column = threshold as if you did one row", probably wrote 5+
due
to habit (IF ships tend to lose their armor one turn, check at 5+ the
next turn, then die).
> >b) Roll as Beam dice but also roll 1d6 for location. 1-3 is
Beam dice (including rerolls) and location die (including reroll).
> Second, what happens if you destroy the entire 4th row without having
Thresholds at 3+
> At 06:00 PM 8/3/00 +0200, Oerjan wrote:
[snip]
> b) Roll as Beam dice but also roll 1d6 for location. 1-3 is
[snip]
> Second, what happens if you destroy the entire 4th row without having
<grin> Sounds fun. ^_^
> OK, he can take out a heavy
Weeell... I suppose I could, but that hasn't happened *quite* yet. Though I
did take out an NSL light cruiser with a single salvo from two
class-2s
(my Trident Frigate design). *That* left an amazed expression on my opponent's
face... who then proceeded to pound the crap out of all the Tridents on the
board, kind of like how I feel about Indy's
Tuffley-class
DDs. <grin>
> Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:
> Bingo. Just sent off a set of masters the other day.
Any clues? Waiting with anticipation...