6" is a bit much for vector. In the Fleet Book, the average ship has a thrust
of 4. If you have a 6" radius, you can guarantee a hit on any ship with a MD
of 4 or less. Just place your SM's at the point where the target's current
heading and velocity will take it. It will not be able to move
6"
from that point (and therefore will be in range).
Free lunch for:
Septième Peste class Superdreadnought Brian Bell bkb@beol.net Tech: Human
(FB) Govt: FSE Mass: 227 Cost: 776 Clas: Superdreadnought (SDN) Hull: Average
Strm: None FTL: Std.
MD: 3
Armr: 10
Damg: 68; 17/17/17/17
Crew: 12 Sens: Std. Systems
1 x Screen
3 x FCS
6 x PDS
1 x Salvo Missile Launcher (FP,F,FS) 1 x Salvo Missile Launcher (AP,FP,F) 1 x
Salvo Missile Launcher (F,FS,AS) 1 x SM Magazine (9 salvos) 1 x Salvo Missile
Launcher (FP,F,FS) 1 x Salvo Missile Launcher (AP,FP,F) 1 x Salvo Missile
Launcher (F,FS,AS) 1 x SM Magazine (9 salvos)
1 x Class-3 beam (AP,FP,F)
1 x Class-3 beam (F,FS,AS)
2 x Class-2 beam (All)
Notes: The first ship design out of the 'Yarda Europea De la Nave De la
Federación, Nueva España', The Septième Peste (7th Plague) SDN just shy of
23,000 tons. It is designed to fill two roles. Home defense (where resupply is
not a problem) and hit and run. Critics of this design note that is it slow
compared to the Foch and that its primary weapons carry armor for just 3
salvos. Proponents point out that the 6 SML's provide unparalleled firepower
(enough to take out any ship) and improved protection. The class name derives
from the 7th plague against Egypt in the book of Exodus, the plague of hail.
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://members.xoom.com/rlyehable/ft/
-----
> -----Original Message-----
> On 11-Aug-99 at 13:22, Bell, Brian K (Brian_Bell@dscc.dla.mil) wrote:
If you think about it you are gauranteed a hit on anything thrust 6 or less.
Every book in the fleet book. Of course, escorts can deal easily with this.
Just make sure you drop an escort close to the ships current vector.
That is the weakness with your design, I think I could take it out with a
lower point value fleet by having scouts to cover heavy cruisers.
True. That's why every fleet needs escorts. To screen the capitals and to get
rid of the screening escorts. A balanced fleet is better in most situations.
No ship design is perfect. The one that I posted has a NUMBER of flaws. It is
something that I would, probably, not take into battle. I prefer smaller ships
(but, then I often loose).
And you are right. The fact that Salvo Missiles attack the nearest target is
the biggest drawback (and balancing point) of the Salvo Missle systems. Let
me, then, rephrase my statement. Since the average ship in the Fleetbook have
a MD of 4, a Salvo Missile salvo launched at the point I described, is
guarnteed to hit (excepting for PDS fire, screening ships, etc.) the average
target ship.
The point is still valid, however, that the average Fleetbook ship cannot
dodge a 6" range SM salvo using vector movement.
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://members.xoom.com/rlyehable/ft/
-----
> -----Original Message-----
> On 11-Aug-99 at 13:59, Bell, Brian K (Brian_Bell@dscc.dla.mil) wrote:
I didn't mean to make it sound like I was complaining, I look at a ship and
the first thing I think is "How would I fight this thing?" In particular I
look at my designs and do this. If I know what my weaknesses are then I can
prepare for them.:)
> And you are right. The fact that Salvo Missiles attack the nearest
Of course, that depends on your opponents. My opponents are all buying ships
capable of dodging my Salvo Missiles. That's fine, if giving up 10% of my
weapons load causes them to give up 20% of theirs I'm happy, and I can still
get a lucky shot.
> The point is still valid, however, that the average Fleetbook ship
Nope, that's why I wonder about the people that keep saying they use 6" range,
you can't miss. I would consider that a bit unbalanced.
G'day Brian,
> 6" is a bit much for vector.
I promise its not pick on Brian today <:)>, but.... we initially used
3",
but rapidly switched back to using 6" and it hasn't screwed up balance one
iota. Especially since it now gives the other guys plenty of reasons to bring
on all their smgegging frigates, scouts, drones etc etc;)
Cheers
Beth
G'day again,
> The point is still valid, however, that the average Fleetbook ship
Don't you think paying a heap for a weapon tha's going to miss most of the
time is a bit unbalancing too? Beam guys point and see if they hit; SM guys,
have to guess where you're going to be (and if you're aiming for his BB and
you think he's going to MD forward so you put it down at current
velocity +3 and he actually about faces and MDs back the other way then
you're going to be lucky to get the frigates that had been out in front let
alone the actual target you were after), then survive PDS, then see how many
make it past the decoys, then, IF any actually go in, see how much damage they
cause (OK my natural talent for 1s doesn't help any of this)
-
frankly if my tech-heads couldn't invent a missile that did the best it
could to help me get it on a target in the first place I'd space 'em;)
Cheers
Beth 'I've put down stacks of 15 SMs for ONE, yes O N E, damage point
inflicted!!!!!!!!!!!' Fulton
I don't feel picked on. It's good to hear a lot of oppionions and experience.
---
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net <mailto:bkb@beol.net>
http://members.xoom.com/rlyehable/
---
[quoted original message omitted]
> At 10:11 AM 8/12/99 +1000, Beth wrote:
Well, yeah Beth, but isn't that just you? ^_-
Although, I have to admit that *is* a rather impressive accomplishment.
Particularly in light of some of what I've managed to pull with SMs. (I
think I did pretty decently with 'em at the GZG-ECC II build your own
fleet
battle....)
> Nope, that's why I wonder about the people that keep saying they use
Such as a Beam weapon against Screen 2? No, it's just irritating. I took two
60 mass missile cruisers last weekend against two NSL Maria von Burgunds, and
slaughtered them. They just couldn't get out of the way (and
we were using 3" radius--note that's radius, not diameter); and 6 SMR's
arriving at once can't be stopped by PDS. One NSL BB was vaporized (I had good
dice), the other went to 3 thresholds in one shot (and that's when I had lousy
dice). It would have helped considerably if he'd had his escorts in the right
place to soak up the fire; and I think the house rule "PDS can fire at
fighters and missiles within 6" even if they're not attacking you" should be
incorporated into the main rules.
G'day Laserlight, Aaron
First up Laserlight:
> Don't you think paying a heap for a weapon tha's going to miss most of
Last time I looked class 2 beams still did damage against a class 2 screen
ship - just not on a 4-. What I meant was that SMs using 3" you can see
ALL your primary weapons miss (especially when some of the minatures
themselves
have 3" from edge to centre pin - and we always measure the SM range to
the centre pin).
> No, it's just irritating.
It is irritating, but I wouldn't say it was 'just irritating';) Beams get
another go next turn, once you're out of SMs your out.
> I took two 60 mass missile cruisers last weekend against two NSL Maria
Are they the 2 thrust ones? If they are, it sort of goes without saying they
can't get out of the way;)
> They just couldn't get out of the way (and
Only if his PDS escorts are poorly placed/not there (something you point
out below I notice) - making sure your 'area defense' ships are in
formation is part of the knack of combating a SM fleet.
> One NSL BB was vaporized (I had
How lousy? And how lousy were his? I haven't crunched the numbers and don't
intend to, but for every ship I've even seen vaporised by a coordinated SM
attack, I've seens one which stood there and laughed and I've seen plenty of
my ships vaporised by one burst of fire from the NSL BB for instance
-
21 or whatever dice it has if you accidently end up in its close range bracket
is pretty devastating!
> I think the house rule "PDS can
For what its worth, so do I.
Now for that dastardly Aaron person...
> Well, yeah Beth, but isn't that just you? ^_-
Probably;)
> Although, I have to admit that *is* a rather impressive accomplishment.
> Particularly in light of some of what I've managed to pull with SMs.
Well, yeah Aaron, but isn't that just you (and that dastardly field of
yours)? ;)
Cheers to all
Beth
> Last time I looked class 2 beams still did damage against a class 2
"Misses most of the time", you said.
> What I meant was that SMs using 3" you can see ALL
Encourages you to pay attention, doesn't it? SMR's are for gamblers. You win
big, or you lose big.
> It is irritating, but I wouldn't say it was 'just irritating' ;)
You rarely get a "one shot, one kill" with a beam, though. SMR's can put a
mission kill on just about anything.
> we were using 3" radius--note that's radius, not diameter); and 6
6 salvo = 36 missiles, of which 21 on average will be on target. Each
PDS kills 0.8 missiles on average. Most ships only have 3 PDS, and there
aren't a lot of FB ships with ADFC. Let's say you have two escorts, they're
both ADFC rigged, and you have everything in tight formation so they mutually
support (and are easier to get SMR hits on). Assuming you assign your
PDS perfectly and don't waste anything from overkill, you're going to kill
about 11 missiles, meaning 10 get through and inflict on average 35 points of
damage, which will cause dismay to any ship in the book. I'm not able to work
out all the numbers right now, but the missiles should actually do a bit
better than this due to your having to allocate fire before you know how
many "on-target" missiles there are.
> intend to, but for every ship I've even seen vaporised by a coordinated
Only if you get missed do you laugh..unless your esteemed opponent has
Kochte Missiles--I understand a fleet with those has been stationed in
your area?:)
> Well, yeah Aaron, but isn't that just you (and that dastardly field of
Six SMR's against a Maria von Burgund (using Class 1's as PDS also), I
inflicted 81 points of damage. As I recall, the first three salvoes were
enough to kill it: 13+19+15 points. It's not just Aaron.
Now, I wouldn't use _only_ SMR boats--when I play Islamic Fed Navy, I
usually take about 1/3 missile ships and the rest beam ships, because
when a
_Qaws_ launches its missiles, it is then useless except as a
distraction. But missiles, used well, can be devastating, and I don't think a
6" radius in Vector is required.
G'day,
> "Misses most of the time", you said.
OK different definition of most (that's the lumps you get for using a word
with a subjective meaning) - I meant misses more often than that.
> Encourages you to pay attention, doesn't it?
Pay attention, is that what you're supposed to do. Oh drat it, knew I'd been
doing something wrong....;P
> SMR's are for gamblers. You
I agree, I just personally think (well the group here thinks) that the
3"
range means that the returns aren't worth it so we opted to go for the
6"
and it doesn't seem to have busted the balance, that's all I'm trying to say:)
> You rarely get a "one shot, one kill" with a beam, though.
Not one beam maybe, but a barrage from a whole ship (especially one of those
big boys is pretty hard to ignore) and you also get the option to hang around
and around and around whereas SM ships can't do that. So you get the one big
bang (SMs) or the lots of little bangs (beams).
> SMR's can put a
If your get on target, they don't have heaps of PDS escorts in range etc etc
etc.
> 6 salvo = 36 missiles, of which 21 on average will be on target.
Once you've got them into the 3" - how often do you manage that out of
interest?
> Each PDS
Not in the book maybe, but I can assure there's quite a few home designed ones
down here;)
> Let's say you have two escorts, they're both
Are you counting rerolls here?
> meaning 10 get through and inflict on average 35 points of
I'll believe you, but I still think the most important factor is the 'getting
them on target in the first place'. We don't play any house rule saying that
you can designate size class of target so you can see your prized missiles
going in, but on the smegging FF so you've got about 31
points of overkill - I guess that's why we don't think using the 6" is
unbalancing as you still rarely see any of the big ships get vaporised, some
do get mangled, but a heap more SCs and FFs cop it instead.
> Only if you get missed do you laugh..unless your esteemed opponent has
I think its the manufactures, they must be sending me duds;)
> Six SMR's against a Maria von Burgund (using Class 1's as PDS also), I
How many of your salvos missed (i.e. did you only fire 6 and then pick
correctly with all 6)? What was the opponents speed?
> Now, I wouldn't use _only_ SMR boats--when I play Islamic Fed Navy, I
And that's the crux of the matter in my opinion, we feel that if you use
3"
than your making it too costly for something that could have no effect and
then be a sitting duck in 10 secs time. Using the 6" instead just seems to
give it the right feel for us.
> But missiles, used well, can be devastating, and I don't think a 6"
radius
> in Vector is required.
I think I'm just going to have to agree to disagree here (again);)
Cheers
Beth
> On 11-Aug-99 at 22:47, Laserlight (laserlight@cwix.com) wrote:
How about, you can fire PDS at fighters and missiles within 6" IF you have an
ADFC.
> -----Original Message-----
And then what do we do with ADFC's?
The following assumes you know who you're facing and can prepare some -
Most useful for engagements vs FSE, or my personal favorites of NI vs. SM
heavy IF.
In vector _or_ cinematic, one or more waves of SM's can be all but
defeated by popcorn ships. Buy a set of scouts and keep 'em in tight formation
with the bigger ships. Only a 'direct hit' SM will get through.
Here's what I'm drawing up for New Israel - (Joint design with AI-heavy
Japan, I think)
'AI scout' (Have to find an appropriate name for the function) Mass 6, Cost 18
Thrust 8 FTL Fragile hull 2 Armor
My personal PSB/house rule says the scout can only use thrust 6 if
crewed solely by AI. Who would volunteer for suicide duty on one of these
things?
You can buy five of them for the cost of a single armed escort. The armor
keeps them from getting easily picked off by an SM-heavy enemy's few
long
range weapons. Keep 2-3 of them around your cruisers and/or escort
groups, ~4 around your caps. They'll get chewed up rapidly, but then that's
the point.
> On 12-Aug-99 at 09:34, Izenberg, Noam (Noam.Izenberg@jhuapl.edu) wrote:
SM
> heavy IF.
So make the battle longer, don't fire your full load into the popcorn since
more than 1 is a waste. Save those SM's for later rounds. If your opponent
isn't big on ADFC's target fighters on the little toasty ships. They die with
almost no effort and each costs more in NPV than your fighter group. Stay out
of range on your big boys until you have cleared the dregs.
May I suggest that you find the Japanese, Hebrew, or Yiddish version for one
of the following:
Mousetrap
Snare
Shield
Bait
Magnet
I had my small ADFC armed corvettes named "Pilotfish" after the fish that
attach themselves to sharks to feed on the scraps.
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://fly.to/fullthrust
Both issues came up early in our Imperium campaign. At first we used standard
FB rules and ship designs (FSE for the Vilani Imperium and NSL for the Terran
Confederation). Later we designed our own (which have been updated, BTW) at:
<http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~jwlyon/FT/imperium/v3shipsan.htm >
and in zip format at:
Originals (with bluelines)
<http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~jwlyon/FT/imperium/V3ships.zip>
Printer ready
<http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~jwlyon/FT/imperium/V3print.zip>
Some of the house rules we adopted:
1. We dumped thruster pushes entirely and adopted something similar to the
"X thrust to rotate (any amount, costing one) and then thrust X-1"
solution. Actually, ours works out to "...then thrust X-2."
In effect, an MD:2 can "turn or burn", an MD:4 ship can "turn and burn" or
"burn and turn" and an MD:6 ship can "turn, burn and turn" or "burn, turn and
burn."
For the most part this seems to work fairly well.
Scale BTW is: 1" = ~1000km 1 turn = ~7.5 mins
1"/turn = ~1.0 G of thrust
Another alternative I'd been considering is to just record two pieces of info
about a ship's move in vector; the amount of thrust and direction of a course
change and the final facing at the end of the turn. Everything else seems to
be just window dressing to arrive at that result. Anyone else have a thought
on this? Arguments for or against? Something I've forgetten?
2. We ditched firing arcs for SLM launchers in favor of placing the salvo
marker withing 24" (or 36" for ERs) of the projected vector point instead of
the ship itself. In effect, this imparts the ship's vector at time of launch
to the missile salvo. We felt this more accurately reflected the realities of
vector movement and eliminated the problem of ships moving at high speeds
overrunning their own missiles.
3. We modified the targeting rules for SLMs so that if a ship dedicates an
active firecon to "terminal guidance" for each missile salvo, then it may
choose which target within 3" the salvo will attack. Salvos without the
guidance of an active firecon will target the nearest ship by default.
4. We designed our own ships to better reflect the vessels in Imperium. One of
the first things we did was make ADFC standard on most ship classes. Since
defending ships can "screen" each other in Imperium and limit the attackers
ability to concentrate on a single target, we felt this was appropriate.
Taken together, these house rules seem to work fairly well together. Salvo
missiles are powerful, but balanced and the vector movement changes have been
well received. If anyone else would like to try them and give me some
feedback, I'd appreciate it.
> If you think about it you are gauranteed a hit on anything thrust 6 or
This is what happened in the game. Yes, people "hit" with their salvos, but
often not the ship they wanted, and occasionally one with substantial defence.
1. 3" is too small for vector. I didn't realize it was an optional
restriction. You hit a very low percentage versus thrust 4 ships, almost never
versus 6 given a manouvering opponent.
2. 6" is too big - the opposite reason. You hit everything that isn't
thrust 8 or something ridiculous.
3. You can evolve tactics that make the FSE work in vector to an extent with a
3" burst radius, but only if they get to pick the type of battle, and even
then it is hit and miss. If they have to fight a fixed engagement for some
reason, without being able to jet all over the place, then they are toast.
Generally, I think a fleet must be
balanced so it can perform reasonably in all types of scenarios - if
it does really badly somewhere, that should be addressed. The easiest way
we've found to address the FSE defficiencies (the lower impact of high thrust
in vector vis a vis cinematic) is to punch up SMLs to 4". 6" seemed just too
gross.
Now, I like an SML to be effective - don't get me wrong. Should it hit
all the time? No. Should it be a threat to thrust 4 ships (it already
is to thrust 2 behemoths) - yes. Thrust six agile ships? Probably some
threat but only if the captain has bad luck. So a 4" envelope nicely satisfies
this (if anyone wants to here the math for this, write me
off list - I have spent quite a while arguing this locally).
I don't like the SML absorber technique for small ships. In the GZGverse, who
the hell would ever want to crew an escort? I'd mutiny first. I don't mind a
chance of getting killed doing my job, but not a gaurantee of same. Small
ships don't pack the point defence to handle this decoy task, and their is
little in the way of ECM or countermeasures to aide them. And you can afford
(in a set piece game)
to lose escorts - in RL those hulls are probably not cheap, and the
staff on them even less so. Losing a disproportionate number is unacceptable.
Plus if that ended up being the tactic, some bright spark would say "our enemy
is kissing off escorts and crew like water... we wish to avoid this, let us
just field larger ships with
more PDS or specialized heavy PDS/ADS..." or something.... you know
they'd work out a solution to this Uberweapon. And no soldier wants to be
bait. Sometimes you have to, but if it is normal modus operandi..... bad plan.
Additionally, (on small ships) we tend to find here that escorts aren't worth
the point cost in general (ignore SMs for a minute). They die before they get
in range. This tends to result in a heavier BC or BB or DN style wall of
battle without escorts as actually having more value per point. The wise
commander of a large ship uses his longer ranged weapons to pound the escorts
to scrap before they reach firing range. Thus they consumed the opponents
points, but only as damage sumps not offensive production centres. If that is
how you want to use them, build them with a big ass hull, just enough drive,
and lots and lots of armour, maybe a 1 level shield. Don't even bother arming
them - or at least make the hits/damage output ratio much higher.
In general, we assume they exist to act as eyes, ears, messengers, and other
such functions of a fleet. They can get dragged into a fight in the wrong
situation, but it isn't planned. If two walls of battle face off, the little
guys just get the heck out of the way so as not to die needlessly. Thus the
big guys can slug it out.
It's just our findings. I find I dislike the idea of human bait, and I dislike
the effectiveness of escorts except as such bait in most large fleet battles.
They should exist, but in the admittedly artificial fixed point scenario, they
should stay home in favour of more WoB ships.
You know, I kind of like the idea of having an active firecontrol controlling
the SM's. How about
Place SM's on the board and designate a target. Move ships. If the target is
in range of the SM it attacks that target, if not follow normal procedure.
Or even a priority list for SM's? It's sensors would be limited so largest or
smallest ship?
I don't know about the sci-fi you've read, but all the stuff
I've read talks about selecting targets for missiles.
This is the difference between MT missiles and Salvo Missiles. Salvo missiles
are fast, but short lived "dumb" missiles. The bigger MT missiles are slightly
slower, have a longer flight time, and have room to carry more sophisticated
sensors and AI's. This is why MT missiles can pick their target.
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://fly.to/fullthrust
> Such as a Beam weapon against Screen 2? No, it's just irritating. I
It sounds as if this isn't a representative example. Two capital ships
operating alone without support are likely to get their butts handed to them
(similar to tanks without infantry).
They wouldn't stand much of a chance against a concentrated fighter attack
either.
> You rarely get a "one shot, one kill" with a beam, though.
All this depends on your style of play. Beams are slow and steady, and SMLs
are fast and risky.
Both tactics have advantages and disadvantages. However, attempting to look at
SMLs through the eyes of a beam tactician, or vice versa, will "appear"
unbalanced every time because it's a case of apples and oranges.
The defences against either are very different, but they do exist.
Leaping headlong into the middle of this discussion...
> intend to, but for every ship I've even seen vaporised by a
HEY! Now I *know* you weren't at the little demo I did last year at Origins;
how do you know about my bloody missiles?!?
(for those of you who didn't see, don't already know, or missed the
write-up
I did, I ran a little NSL/FSE game. Since so few people were available
to play, I played the FSE (note: I am and will be the first to admit I am not
an SM* wizard; I'm partial to beams and my fave weapon, p-torps :). My
opponent had never played NSL before (in fact really hadn't played much of
the FB ships except NAC-types and ESU-types). I ran the following
scenario:
http://scivax.stsci.edu/~kochte/s3.html
Now, I think that's a more than reasonable amount of SMs I should have put
out/spread around on the NSL ships. My opponent (remember his experience
with NSL, and by extension, FSE) decided to barrel onto the field at speed 4
(we were playing Cinematic for you Vector fiends:). I ramped up to a higher
speed (I don't remember exactly), but left my CVA in the rear for protection.
At his rather high velocity, I was able to put my fighters and SMs pretty much
right
'on target' almost every time (once a medium-sized ship got 'in the way'
and ate a lot, but overall his cap ships were hit with SMs). His rather meager
escort ships (2 CLs) were sufficient to whittle down my SMs noticeably, and
then the number that hit after that were...few. Damage points after that
were...few. In the end all I had left was my CVA and a few fighters, whereas
he had only lost a few ships (don't remember exactly what, but I think it was
a
couple of DD/FFs, a medium ship) and had a severaly mauled BDN (from
accumulated SM *and* fighter fire). All other NSL ships were either pristine
or lightly damaged.
Ah well. Just a data point for the discussion.
Mk
> Kochte missiles....
> HEY! Now I *know* you weren't at the little demo I did last year at
how do you know about my bloody missiles?!?<
Take your choice: a) you don't know I wasn't there, you just know that I
didn't introduce myself and you didn't recognize me. b) I read your mind. c) I
extrapolated from your torpedo experience.
However, in light of Beth's admitted "15 SM launch, expected damage =
183.75 - 2.8 per target's PDS, actual damage = 1", we can rename them
Fulton missiles if it makes you feel better.
: )
> On Thu, 12 Aug 1999, Izenberg, Noam wrote:
> Here's what I'm drawing up for New Israel - (Joint design with
i call these 'granaatscherven', (meaning 'shrapnel'); a friend of mine
uses this term to refer to tiny-valued coins, in reference to what
happens if you buy a 20p item with a pound coin and the shopkeeper is feeling
vicious - you get a load of tiny bits of metal thrown at you. the sense
of small size, large numbers and low value exactly capture the intent of this
kind of ship!
my first granaatscherven design was even more cheesy:
Granaatscherven I Mass 3 Cost 9 Thrust 6 (same as the ships they escort) FTL
Hull 1 (average)
Noam's have four hull points, mine have one - given that soaking up an
SM salvo is going to kill both of these designs, i'd opt for the cheapest one.
my current, low milk fat, design is mass 7, cost 24 and has 3 PDS. under
the mooted PDS-can-shoot-any-nearby-targets rule, these become handy
little air defence escorts.
i then have variants filling other offline roles such as scout, ECM, lancers
(with subpacs), gunboat (for customs work and such), courier and
stealth courier. only the escort and lancer would be much use on-table,
although the scout would be useful if sensor rules were in use. i would
really also need an interdictor - a fast, armed ship for intercepting
the enemy's scouts before they can get in sensor range...
my fleet is then basically battleships and the odd heavy cruiser (like a mini
battleship) wrappped in granaatscherven and backed up by an escort cruiser (8
PDS, 2 ADFC) here and there. in theory, it's invincible. in theory:).
> My personal PSB/house rule says the scout can only use thrust 6 if
i too claim AI for these ships - after all, they don't exactly have a
difficult job in battle. for jumps and complicated maneuevers, shuttle some
crew over, but when banzai jamming, take the crew onto the battleship and
leave george to run things.
tom
G'day Laserlight,
> However, in light of Beth's admitted "15 SM launch, expected damage =
Everytime we set-up a game my son asks whether they're Mummy missiles on
board.... you know your son loves you when he makes a dice in wood work at
school and takes the one off;)
Cheers
Beth
G'day Schoon, Thomas,
Saving on electrons again...
Schoon said:
> All this depends on your style of play. Beams are slow and steady, and
I agree with all of this whole heartedly, I guess I'm just not as eloquent
(calm, rational...) as you;) I was just trying to say that in my opinion if
you look at all the damage that can be inflicted over the entire course of the
game, 3" was too small to allow SMs to be as cost balanced as beams. Why the
hell I didn't put it that succinctly in the first place I don't know;)
Thomas said:
> 1. 3" is too small for vector. I didn't realize it was an optional
Actually I've been toying with this idea too. In a few games I've been having
with my son Lachy I'd split the difference and gone for 4.5" as the SM radius
to see what effect that had and that seemed to work pretty well. However the
general reception I got from the adult gamers down here
(i.e.
use 3" or 6" 'cos they're in the book) put me off advancing the idea
here -
left that to braver people than I;)
Cheers
Beth
> May I suggest that you find the Japanese, Hebrew, or Yiddish version
Here's some Japanese names:
Mousetrap: Nezumitori Snare: Wana Shield (protection): Yoke Shield (MIL): Tate
Bait (for fish, animal): esa Bait (for criminal): otori Bait (person: tease):
karakau Magnet: Jishaku
> From the Collins Shubun English Japanese Dictionary.
> G'day Laserlight,
ROFLMAO!
> -----Original Message-----
Actually, I believe that's the way it was handled in the EFSB. Of course, they
do not have ADFC, so it kind of balances out; ship's within 6" can target
without a problem, however ships within 6" of the friendly ship but
not within 6" of the fighters/missiles cannot.