G'day guys,
> >it's the name and regimental traditions that are
Well as someone with no military experience and no associations to call upon
(and hopefully without stirring up this joint into anymore of a hornets nest
than it already is, I'm not trying to be insulting or start a new round of
chest pounding and profanity I'm honestly, and if I dare say it innocently,
interested), could you guys give me a (quick) perspective on why it matters so
much?
At the risk of getting myself expelled from Australia (this list and wargaming
in general I guess) I have always marvelled at people quoting our
(Australia's) "digger" traditions and proclaiming we're damn fine soldiers
based on something that happened when my grandfather still got acne! OK I know
Aussie soldiers (and obviously this extends to other nations too) have "done
good" since (e.g. Long Tan... sorry if I spelt that wrong), but even that can
be a good while ago (Vietnam is something I know about, but at 28
don't remember it for myself). Maybe its just my non-military upbringing
and the fact the closest to combat I've been is sport and academia (OK they do
say the pen is mightier than the sword, and science politics is not for the
weak at heart, but you know what I mean), but in those fields this years
"greats" can be next years "flops" its never a steady and constant thing. So
is all this pride in unit history there so that you don't let the side down
when it comes your turn or is it the hope that you won't let the side down?
Just wondering - and before you all think I'm a complete non-starter I
do realise the importance of knowing history and the pride of traditions etc,
I'm just interested to hear/understand how come its so strong
generation-generation in matters military... especially after some of
the old blokes that inhabited my local when I lived in Scotland spoke of units
up there (in the UK in general I guess) that could trace back 100s of years
and how that proved they were kick ass (even when the units had been less than
exemplary in the interim).
Cheers
> --- Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
> Well as someone with no military experience and no
<TiC>
Uh... I don't know. I just know it does. Everyone around you acts as if it's
important, so it must be important.
</TiC>
Seriously, it's hard to explain. Except that history, lineage, traditions, and
honors are emphasised so much
that you can't help it. Rather like family--I might
pick on a guy in my platoon, but damned if I'll let anyone else do so.
> steady and constant thing. So
More or less--that's why these things got started.
Units with a sense of history made people stand and fight so as not to
disgrace The Legion ('coz Romans are the ones that started it). The Brits just
renamed them Regiments, but the psychology is still the same.
Beth said:
> steady and constant thing. So
I recall an instance where a unit was hard pressed by the enemy (Romans, I
think? but it could be Napoleonic French, the details blur when you get old,
you know). This unit's centurion had tried
prodding, bellowing, cursing, etc, to motivate the troops--no results.
In disgust, he took the eagle and threw it into enemy unit. His
cohort promptly broke the enemy--catching the eagle before the
barbarians got their hands on it.
> --- Laserlight <laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:
> I recall an instance where a unit was hard pressed
Roman, and IIRC it was GJC Himself what did it. Can't for the life of me
remember which fight it was.
From: <Beth.Fulton@csiro.au>
> At the risk of getting myself expelled from Australia (this list and
OK I
> know Aussie soldiers (and obviously this extends to other nations too)
have
> "done good" since (e.g. Long Tan... sorry if I spelt that wrong), but
So
> is all this pride in unit history there so that you don't let the side
I forget who said "a rational army would run away".
I've been shot at, but it was a long time ago and far away, and it didn't seem
very dangerous at the time, so that doesn't really count. Still, I have had a
gang surround me and one of em pull a knife in a situation where I couldn't
run away, and that was quite scarey enough, thanks very much. And due to some
years as a patient in an oncology ward in the 70s, I've seen quite a few mates
die horrible deaths around me, and fully expected to go that way myself. I
know the varieties of fear, from the stark fighting terror that causes you to
lose kinesthesia (your limbs feel weightless, you move without thought, you
can lift huge loads and break your own bones doing it), through to the much
worse icy chill when you realise that in a few weeks you're going to
be dead, but that you have an ocean of pain to cross first - and you
keep on going, hoping against hope, and trying to do whatever you can to make
a difference before you die, to try to give some point to it all.
What keeps soldiers at the sharp end from making themselves scarce when the
whizzbangs start to fly? Firstly, there's the fear of letting down your mates.
But also, there's tradition: our ancestors (even if they weren't blood
relations) managed to do (insert heroic deed here) so we have the capability
to do the same. So we *can* overcome our fear. And not merely that, but tear
those enemy bastards limb from limb and rip their throats out with our teeth
if neccessary.
It's not logical, nor rational. It's an emotional comfort that quells panic
and allows you to function in a irrational manner, doing what your will
requires of you, rather than what your instincts and intellect says you should
do.
So it doesn't matter that those who fought at Anzac Cove are long gone, nor
that not a drop of their blood flows in our veins. They did it: we can too.
To everyone upon this earth Death cometh soon or late But how can we die
better Than facing fearless odds For the ashes of our fathers