Hey, that'd work. I think. (Ogre doesn't have grav units, and MECHA!'s
flying units are never explained, as it's a generic system - could be
jets, grav, or the Martian 8th ray...)
If you're doing a sub game, you'll need good sensor rules to really get that
classic feel. I've been starting a high-tech naval campaign
(role-playing,
not minis) using R. Talsorian's Fuzion, and have to develop decent house
rules for sonar.
--------original message------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:06:33 PDT
Well, this doesn't address the original post of doing Dirtside II underwater,
but I thought this was at least a relevant tangent of the same thread: full
thrust underwater!:) I don't remember where I found or heard of this page,
but, here ya go:
http://www.chem.kuleuven.ac.be/research/fysanal/members/bv/GAMES/AQUAZON
E/aqap.html
One of these days I aim to do something about this (ie, play a game
in this enviroment - first I need to build some sub models, though! :)
Mk
G'day Indy,
> One of these days I aim to do something about this (ie, play a game
Oh that's easy, get some card/balsa cut out a rectangle of the right
scale, put down some flock, pain blue then cover with wtaer glue with blue ink
in (to make it look like water), pick off a few wave tops in white and presto!
An alternative is to hav a fine piece of brass rod coming up out of the waves
for when you're at periscope depth.....;P
I actually did this to take the piss out of Derek when he was painting up all
his Harppon stuff, actually didn't work out half bad;)
Cheers
Beth
P.S. G'day John, Mikko!
Does that mean that I can use empty stands to represent my Stealth aircraft in
DSII? Gee, I could save all sorts of money....
----Original Message Follows----
From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Underwater Rules
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:55:40 +1000
G'day Indy,
> One of these days I aim to do something about this (ie, play a game
Oh that's easy, get some card/balsa cut out a rectangle of the right
scale, put down some flock, pain blue then cover with wtaer glue with blue ink
in (to make it look like water), pick off a few wave tops in white and presto!
An alternative is to hav a fine piece of brass rod coming up out of the waves
for when you're at periscope depth.....;P
I actually did this to take the piss out of Derek when he was painting up all
his Harppon stuff, actually didn't work out half bad;)
Cheers
Beth
P.S. G'day John, Mikko!
Okay, let's take a look at this. I don't own (yet) Dirtside II but I
think I can ask a few questions/make a few observations:
Drives:
Tracked, wheeled - no go.
Hovercraft - no go unless you can produce a bubble effect under the ship
for the fans to push off of. Or 'fly' at a ninety degree tilt?
Gravetic drives - why not? Gravity is the same under water, right?
(Maybe I call the geodesy guys at work tomorrow, just to be sure.) Screw,
paddles (oh yeah, right!) and propulsors (like the neat RN subs
use.) - designed to be there.
Weapons:
Okay, lasers could ba attuned in advance for underwater operations, would
missiles and mass drive system weapons be reduced significantly (guessing
yes), and how would you design 'torpedoes' that would work underwater and be
carried by craft not originally designed for underwater combat (assumes not
using underwater specific designs.)
Since I use the Nektons in Starguard (Amphibians using jetpacks that fly at
20" and 'fly' underwater at 10") this kind of issue is very intriguing. Wish I
had signed up on the list earlier!
Assuming battalion style combat, how would off-table weapons be
reflected? Same? Different? would Arty on land firing into water in support
suffer any penalty? What about 'aerospace' support craft? Replaced by surface
skimmers acting like upgraded FF's? Or would they be
airborne assets like today's ASW Heli/planes?
Assuming an archipelago (only underwater, mostly at least)
nation/planetary force is defending, what about the trade off with
tri-phibious versus amphibious (air/sea or land/sea) versus 'submarine'
craft - where you penalize the multi-environment craft over the
specialized 'purely naval' forces of the attuned/designed defense
forces?
Infantry:
Lights 'swimming' with normal human abilities and re-breathers; 'mobile
lights' using underwater scooters and re-breathers; heavy infantry with
or without scooters; 'mech' Infantry using submersible APC's; Mecha Walkers
striding along the bottom of shallow (<100 Meters) water positions.
Artmor, Air strike, Artillery blending into and with submarines - Whoa,
were do I sign up for this ga,e?
Gracias.
Glenn Wilson, Triple Threat Wargamer - (loses equally well in
SF/Fantasy/Historical Games.) Prefers Fantasy Dwarves, Starguard
Science
Fiction, 1500-1700 North America Skirmishes, the First Crusade, and most
anything prior to firing pins and Machine Guns
G'day,
> Okay, let's take a look at this. I don't own (yet) Dirtside II but I
They were pretty good thanks, just a couple of things.
> Drives:
Just to be picky, why not? Yes they'd definitely be out for abyssal plains
(too silty) and stuff where there's sharp drops and stuff, but the flatbeds of
much of the continental slope, especially if they avoid reefs shouldn't
be that difficult terrain-wise. Or has it got more to do with how you'd
get the propulsive force in the first place??
> Hovercraft - no go unless you can produce a bubble effect under the
I take it you need something of a much higher density to push off with
hovercraft (??) thus even this last idea wouldn't wrok becuase you'd still be
surrounded by a medium equally dense on all sides.
> Gravetic drives - why not? Gravity is the same under water, right?
I'd agree with that one.
> Screw, paddles (oh yeah, right!) and propulsors (like the neat RN subs
Guess would include the new 'fish-like' propulsion system the Japanese
are working on??
> Okay, lasers could ba attuned in advance for underwater operations,
The lasers would still have vastly reduced ranges anyway though. Heat loss
from plasma weapons would also be an issue I'd say as would be the attenuation
of the range railguns etc.
> and how would you design 'torpedoes' that would work underwater and
Well I was thinking that things from 'sealed' vessels would be OK, but I
hadn't really thought about how water would gum up the parts or anything of
the firing chambers.
> Assuming battalion style combat, how would off-table weapons be
Hadn't even thought about that, though I would assume ortillery to have
similar effects regardless of the medium, maybe.
> What about 'aerospace' support craft?
Guess it depends on what they're firing and how well it copes with the
atmospheric-water interface etc.
> Assuming an archipelago (only underwater, mostly at least)
Well I'll have to go back and see what are the impacts of amphibious on
current DS, but gut reaction would be yes unless the owning force has ploughed
a lot of effort in (i.e. rich nations triphibious may still be
better than rag-tag pure naval).
> Lights 'swimming' with normal human abilities and re-breathers;
If you really were playing it out in an archipelago or other shallow water
body I'd even be tempted to allow non-assisted dives for the ultimate
stealth (very short range, but may be away fo taking out perimeter defense
monitors etc unnoticed)
> Artmor, Air strike, Artillery blending into and with submarines - Whoa,
Well I'll try and do some more thinking about it this weekend and get it back
to you next week.
Cheers
Beth
G'day Brian,
> Does that mean that I can use empty stands to represent my Stealth
Really depends what you think you can get away with....;)
Beth
I'll never know 'till I try, will I? ;-)
Brian Bilderback
----Original Message Follows----
From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Underwater Rules
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:18:40 +1000
G'day Brian,
> Does that mean that I can use empty stands to represent my Stealth
Really depends what you think you can get away with....;)
Beth
Mind if I put my mind to it too?
Brian Bilderback
----Original Message Follows----
From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Underwater Rules
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:16:12 +1000
Well I'll try and do some more thinking about it this weekend and get it back
to you next week.
Cheers
Beth
G'day Brian,
> Mind if I put my mind to it too?
Mind, never! Go for your life mate!
After two heads are better than one and all that - and don't none of you
mainlanders utter a word thank you!;)
Cheers
Beth P.S. Brian tell me how far you get (or how long for that matter) with
your new stealth option;)
> At 12:53 PM +1000 13/4/00, Beth Fulton wrote:
3 words Tasmania, tasmania, tasmania
or 7
what is the scar on your neck?
from the Tropic of Capricorn ey
MarkS
All the way from Gallifrey...