UN ships online eh?

Must wait patiently for IJN ships....must wait patiently for the IJN
ships...

Easy, boy. He doesn't seem to have the UN ships up yet...

He just LOVES teasing us. ;->=

Oh, wait, Jon tells him to do that; diabolical!

The_Beast

*ahem* Make that the UN ships STATS don't seem to be up; of course he's got
the deals up already. It's a business, right? ;->=

The_Beast

> On 2/17/04 9:16 PM, "Doug Evans" <devans@nebraska.edu> wrote:

> Easy, boy. He doesn't seem to have the UN ships up yet...

I see ship stat linkage here: http://www.gtns.co.uk/store1/

Damo

*blush* Oh, me of little faith. Sorry, Paul, I assumed it'd be in the download
section or with the deals.

Thanks, Damo!

The_Beast

owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU wrote on 02/17/2004 08:59:42 PM:

> On 2/17/04 9:16 PM, "Doug Evans" <devans@nebraska.edu> wrote:

Diabolical is how hideous those Grasers are; I definately don't want to be
on the end of a Gaia-class SDN at extreme range.  I can't shoot back
that far!

Brendan 'Neath Southern Skies

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*woof* I missed the 18" range bands. The class three's got a 6" further arm
than my Kamarov's class four's, and it can do pulse torp nasties. Natch, with
thrust 4.

Still that's only one weapon that can really reach out and touch you.

Must have Indy making the rolls! ;->=

Seriously, aren't you glad they're standing between you and Karl?

What's your feeling on the AMT?

The_Beast

I'd prefer using SMRs unless facing a swarm fleet or heavy fighters.

The PDS rules for them don't specifically cover KV scatterpacks (the normal
target).

Brendan 'Neath Southern Skies

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> I'd prefer using SMRs unless facing a swarm fleet or heavy fighters.

That's about what it felt like to me. Not the ship-killing monster I
thought had been discussed. Can you imagine it just in range in the midst of
several ships, only to second move to closest, and out of range of others?

Not necessary a likelihood, but, when it happened, wouldn't it smart?
;->=

The_Beast

> Doug Evans wrote:
further arm
> than my Kamarov's class four's, and it can do pulse torp nasties.
Natch,
> with thrust 4.

> Doug Evans wrote:
further arm
> than my Kamarov's class four's, and it can do pulse torp nasties.
Natch,
> with thrust 4.

;-)

BTW, it goes without saying that anyone who's on any other relevant lists
(whether directly FT related or general) should feel free to
cross-post the news about both the UNSC stats and the special deals
if they think people might be interested.

> Doug Evans wrote:

> What's your feeling on the AMT?
My first thought, when I saw it, was "I wonder if this could be used
with magazines" - AMT launcher, more rounds in the tubes. Just felt
slightly better than the idea of hanging big rockets off the underside of the
hull (or, as I see it, those big UNSC wings...).

> Doug Evans wrote:

Actually, model-wise, you'll notice the AMT armed ships are the ones
with the three-tube launchers on the main hull sides (or ventrally on
the DD).....

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:24:43 +0000 Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.com>
wrote:

> Actually, model-wise, you'll notice the AMT armed ships are the ones

Oh, is _that_ what those are? I wondered... <g>

Phil
----
"Sic Transit Gloria Barramundi" (Or, So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!)

To St Jon and all the FT Guru's;

I'm due to fight a 10,000 pointer with a Kra' Vak tech enemy in 2 weeks which
gives me a good opportunity to test these lovely new UN
weapons/tech,
so towards that end do you have any suggestions on the interaction between
scatter guns and AMT's, I was thinking of using the same mechanic
scatterguns use versus PBL's (1-3= miss, 4-5 1 pt reduction, 6=2pt
reduction?). Would that be appropiate?

Regards,

> On Tuesday 17 February 2004 11:21 pm, Robertson, Brendan wrote:

Another aspect of the new weapons that isn't addressed in the BETA
write-up:

The AMT, it's quite likely that fighter screens will be caught in the blast,
how do AMTs affect fighter groups? I think that just rolling the appropriate
number of dice for the MU from the AMT as if the dice were from PDSes is

appropriate, but what's the "official" word?

> Another aspect of the new weapons that isn't addressed in the BETA

Hmm...

And here I was just thinking that the fighters would just be vaporized.

> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 09:51:22AM -0500, FlakMagnet72 wrote:

These questions are being mulled over. Please post any more that you come up
with!

> Jon wrote:

> BTW, it goes without saying that anyone who's on any other relevant

I seem to be the point man on the Yahoo group recently, so I'll post the offer
there in the next few minutes.

> On Wednesday 18 February 2004 09:57 am, Roger Burton West wrote:

> These questions are being mulled over. Please post any more that you

I figured... otherwise they wouldn't be "beta" would they? *grin*

Another thing that isn't spelled out:  Are the AMTs one-shot weapons?
It seems to combine rules from SML's and PBL and is called a "Torpedo" as
well.
PBL and Pulse Torps don't track ammo, but SMLs do.   Calling it a
one-turn
missile seems to indicate they're one-shots, but could also be
interpreted to be a clarification that they don't last more than one turn (as
I think PBLs
do?).

Finally, don't they require arcs?  Or are they exclusively single-arc
weapons?

> At 10:38 AM -0500 2/18/04, FlakMagnet72 wrote:
It
> seems to combine rules from SML's and PBL and is called a "Torpedo" as

I'd expect that they work like a short ranged MT missile and work along
similar lines of launch and attack. Though, a range of where you can launch
and place them would be useful. Single shot seems obvous however.

> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, FlakMagnet72 wrote:

> Another thing that isn't spelled out: Are the AMTs one-shot weapons?

...
> Calling it a one-turn missile seems to indicate they're one-shots

Seems clear (er, well, I guess not...;) that it is a "missile", not a rack of
missles or a missile launcher system. "A one turn missile" ==
"a
missile which lasts one turn", no?

Cheers,

> Jerry Acord wrote:

Well, salvo missiles are "one turn missiles", too. ;-)

I think the concern is for better clarification. However, these *are* betatest
materials. Lot of fleshing out needs to be dealt with yet. And sometimes it
gets missed by the testers when they've been pouring over it so much that they
"know" what it is "supposed to be" rather than what
is written in text form. That sometimes gets glossed over. :-/  This is
kinda where feedback from y'all comes in. :-) (though to whom directly
that feedback should go to hasn't been, afaik, assigned yet)

> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Roger Burton West wrote:

> These questions are being mulled over. Please post any more that you

Re: AMTs -- why do successful hits on the missile reduce its blast
radius
/ damage, instead of simply destroying the missile?  If it's a physical
missile (as opposed to, say, the Plasma Bolt), either it detonates or it's
destroyed and doesn't, right?

Cheers,

Well it is an anti matter missile, so a hit which destroys the missile would
probably still result in the anti-matter detonating as its containment
field fails and it slams into normal matter (OK, this is stretching my slender
grasp on physiscs waypast breaking point), so rather than a big controlled
explosion, you get a smaller not so well controlled explosion.

Maybe.

Regards,

Matt Tope

[quoted original message omitted]

> I think the concern is for better clarification. However, these *are*

One that I'd point out is that one weapon is described in 'mu's and the other
inches. If you're using CM's for 'mu's, the inches get very BIG.
;->=

Of course WE understood, but RL's in RL...

Small quibble: the SSD are coming out very large when printed. Everything I
have to shrink them fuzzies the lettering. Suggestions?

The_Beast

Oh, yeah. With Indy, I'd like to say we only point this stuff out 'cuz we love
the work that goes into betatests. Thanks, and it's hard to give thoughtful
feedback that doesn't sound like criticism of a negative
variety. Ask Oerjan. ;->=

And I apologize for continuing to pick on '"Is that what a '6' looks like?"
Indy'.

Not that I'll stop...

The_Beast

> On Wednesday 18 February 2004 10:59 am, Jerry Acord wrote:

I felt that the wording of the rules left room for argument, so I brought it
up. If I'd been asked by one of my group's players if they were
one-shots
I'd have said "yes", but I'd rather head off the need. It seems obvious,
unless you _want_ to get multiple shots out of it...

Remember, I'm working with a WH40K-playing crowd when I try to promote
interest in Full Thrust, splitting hairs is part of THEIR hobby.

> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 11:23:00AM -0500, FlakMagnet72 wrote:

> I felt that the wording of the rules left room for argument, so I

This is welcome. These _are_ beta-test materials in the traditional
sense: bug reports are desired. The shadowy forms of the test list find your
concerns... amusing. (OK, maybe I should stop watching Invader
Zim.)

New spectacles?

[quoted original message omitted]

> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, FlakMagnet72 wrote:

> I felt that the wording of the rules left room for argument

Point taken!

> Remember, I'm working with a WH40K-playing crowd when I try to promote

> interest in Full Thrust, splitting hairs is part of THEIR hobby.

I feel your pain! "It says each squad can have up to two heavy zap guns

or super melta guns. Does that mean they can have one of each or do they have
to have two of the same?" *sigh*

Cheers,

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:23:00 -0500 FlakMagnet72
> <flakmagnet@tabletop-battlezone.com> wrote:

> Another thing that isn't spelled out: Are the AMTs one-shot weapons?

> I felt that the wording of the rules left room for argument, so I
It seems obvious, unless you _want_ to get multiple shots out of it... <

I initially took it to mean one icon = one shot, but wondered about that when
this discussion began. From an operational POV, I have to wonder why the UNSC
would put weapons like that on ships like the Sol class, types which are
intended for extended cruises. I can see them using such weapons in ships
which, say, cruise around Core World space,
but on their long-range stuff? Hope they have really, really good
supply lines...

All of which makes me think that maybe an AMT _isn't_ a one-shot
weapon, in which case it is seriously mean, and probably underpriced.

Phil
----
"We gotta get out into Space / If it's the last thing we ever do!"
   -- Return to the Forbidden Planet

> Doug Evans wrote:

I understand that perfectly. Most of the testers understand that, as well, I
think.

> And I apologize for continuing to pick on '"Is that what a '6' looks

Yeahright. ;-)

> Not that I'll stop...

You wouldn't be The_Beast otherwise.  ;-)

Mk

> >I think the concern is for better clarification. However, these *are*

Yeah, little things like that slip through. You know what you want it to say,
so you miss what it actually says. The beta page will get updated as the rules
are clarified, thanks for the questions so far.

> Small quibble: the SSD are coming out very large when printed.
Everything I
> have to shrink them fuzzies the lettering. Suggestions?

Are you reducing the image size or trying to print the image smaller? Printing
from the browser or from an image editing program?

I suggest using an image editing program, paste a few SSDs together on a page,
then print with the 'fit to page' option on.

The SSDs are large when on screen, but since printers have a much higher
resolution, they should look good when printed smaller.

> Phil Atcliffe wrote:

> From an operational POV, I have to wonder why the UNSC would put

The Sol class has 12 Mass worth of cargo space. Hm...

<G>

Regards,

I did some testing with the SSDs in various programs. I saved the SSD as
an image file by right-clicking the SSD and selecting "save picture as".
 I
then opened a Word document and selected "Insert" and "Picture" and "From
File" to insert the SSD into the document. From there I was able to size it
with fair success. For those who don't or won't use Word, I had similar
success using Open Office 1.1.

If you want to use the SSD as a part of a larger document, then past it into a
large Paint file, add the other items you want then save the image. You can
then insert the whole image into your Word or Open Office document, and size
it appropriately. I used this method to create SSDs for all of the ships and
their variants in Fleet Book 1, then added weapon information below the image
for a single point of reference for each ship in play.

[quoted original message omitted]

***
I feel your pain! "It says each squad can have up to two heavy zap guns or
super melta guns. Does that mean they can have one of each or do they have to
have two of the same?" *sigh*
***

No, wait, that's two of each, right? But only if you model two guns on the
same figure, right?

Don't get me wrong; some of my best friends are Outriders...

***
> Not that I'll stop...

You wouldn't be The_Beast otherwise.  ;-)
***

Monty Python's Graham Chapman: He likes me, he likes me!

***
Are you reducing the image size or trying to print the image smaller? Printing
from the browser or from an image editing program?
***

At work, the only think I could think to do was paste into Paint and reduce.
*stone knives and bear skins...* *grumble*grumble*

***
I did some testing with the SSDs in various programs.(..)
***

Thanks, Karl! I'll try Word and Word-and-Paint later on.

The_Beast

G'day,

> I initially took it to mean one icon = one shot, but wondered about

The UN is every where;P

Could also be they have a stock in their cargo holds that are reloaded between
battles (but too involved to do in a battle so thus the one shot).

Cheers

On Wednesday, Feb 18, 2004, at 08:08 Europe/London, Ground Zero Games
wrote:

> BTW, it goes without saying that anyone who's on any other relevant

> they think people might be interested.

Posted on Traveller_FullThrust, Citizens of the Imperium and JTAS.

> At 9:50 AM +1100 2/19/04, <Beth.Fulton@csiro.au> wrote:

Well, there is the Fleet Replenishment Tender model.

> Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:

The entire mantra is "The UN: we are everywhere, for your convenience."
:-)
(apologies to JMS)

Mk

"U-N, U-N, is ev-ery-where......
Breathe deep!  Whi-i-le you sleep, breathe deep!  Deep!  Dee-dee-deep!"
;-)

Brendan 'Neath Southern Skies

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> At 12:56 PM +1100 2/19/04, Robertson, Brendan wrote:

So daft question. Why are the UN ships blue? Why not the nice UN white with
big black "U N" letters on the side?

> So daft question. Why are the UN ships blue? Why not the nice UN

Well, some of the ships are as gray as my NSL's, but the thing that came to
mind is that it was the same contractor doing the peacekeepers' helmets, but
got the wrong mix when attempting bulk painting.

UN vehicles are usually white, and that's your point, right? APC's and the
like.

Don't think they have any naval component just yet. That they're admitting, at
least.

The_Beast

> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:50:31 +1100 <Beth.Fulton@csiro.au> writes:

Like cockroaches? <grin> or the VC?

> Could also be they have a stock in their cargo holds that are reloaded

True, some WW2 IJN DD's had reloads but withdrew from combat before
reloading...

> Cheers
Gracias,

> "U-N, U-N, is ev-ery-where......

Sounds like a Tom and Jerry cartoon:

"He's here, He's there, he's everywhere.. Beware the mark of the Mouse!

Oh wait I do the mouse thing... Copyright infringement!

> At 8:10 PM -0600 2/18/04, Doug Evans wrote:
helmets,
> but got the wrong mix when attempting bulk painting.

Well, considering that the UN has no real full time force, I'm surprised there
is a UNSC component in the first place. Perhaps the Blue is for permanent and
White would be for Earth Ships assigned to UN duties.

At least they don't have the same problem Booster Terrick does in SW:
X-Wing
series of books; there isn't enough paint in the galaxy to paint his Star
Destroyer anything but white (he wants a nice red paint job).

Brendan 'neath southern skies

> -----Original Message-----
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***
> "U-N, U-N, is ev-ery-where......

Sounds like a Tom and Jerry cartoon:
***

I believe the tune our very own fighting monk was alluding to was 'The Air',
from the musical 'Hair'. Now THAT dates him! *ahem*...and me.

The_Beast

G'day,

> So daft question. Why are the UN ships blue? Why not the nice UN

In this case I think it had more to do with the fig painters favourite colours
;)

Cheers

> Phillip Atcliffe wrote:

Easy enough to PSB though. The use of the word torpedo suggests that
they aren't single-shot.  However as suggested, they may not be
reloadable during a battle. Possible options include:

Assume the antimatter is generated onboard, however it requires either a

substantial proportion of the ships energy budget to do so; or the
main-drive/reactor must be run in a configuration incompatible with
normal thrust.  The AMT limit on the SSD would represent the anti-matter

storage capacity.

If it takes anytime for AMT's to be prepared, perhaps missles are preped

in anticpation of battle; possibly to be jetisoned if unused (hard to
safely dispose of anti-matter onboard).  In this case the AMT's listed
on the SSD would represent the 'primed storage' capacity.

Note that both cases provide additional fodder for scenarios where an AMT
equiped UN ship is ambushed while prepping or restocking it's AMT supply. The
latter also provides for emergency jetisoning on a threshold check if AMT's
should require a minor disadvantage for tuning.

ie. AMT's would not be repairable (the torp's have been jetisoned, and even if
you repair the tubes, they can't be restocked without leaving the battle).

Just some options, PSB is fun;)

> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 09:04:29PM -0500, Ryan Gill wrote:

A friend of mine painted his first UN fleet white with pale blue
highlights. His second is black. :-)

R

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:11:09 +0000 Roger Burton West
> <roger@firedrake.org> wrote:

> A friend of mine painted his first UN fleet white with pale blue

To represent the fleet before and after they were fired on for the first
time...? <g>

Phil, whose UN fleet is metallic blue with white trim.
----
"I think... I think I am! Therefore I am... I think?"
                                       -- The Moody Blues

> Ryan Gill wrote:
helmets,
> >but got the wrong mix when attempting bulk painting.

Or any other explanation. The UNSC in the GZGVerse isn't the same UN that we
have in current real time. The UNSC in the future is
a different organization - and has teeth. :-)  It's not going to
gum the opposition to death.

Mk

> Remember, I'm working with a WH40K-playing crowd when I try to

See, this is why all games need to hire an English major to go over the rough
drafts and remove these minor vague wording problems.

And if you're hiring, I know where you can find one...

-P.

> Ryan Gill wrote:
helmets,
> >but got the wrong mix when attempting bulk painting.

From when I designed them, I had always envisaged the UNSC ships being
predominantly white, with some large areas of pale to mid blue (perhaps broad
bands around main hull and wings, with the UNSC logo on these bands in maybe
white or gold?); drive units in grey or gunmetal.

BUT, this is certainly not an "official" scheme - just an idea. I do
like Agis' all-blue ships, I think they work well. In the end, do
what you like best!

Seeing as I've never even had the chance to paint any myself....  ;-)

Me too, if truth be known.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:32:34 -0600 Doug Evans <devans@nebraska.edu>
writes:
> ***

> >>"U-N, U-N, is ev-ery-where......

Not if we, the FCT, catch them at it!!!

Bye for now,

John Leary sez:
> > >>"U-N, U-N, is ev-ery-where......

Oh, give me a break. The only time there's contention 'tween you guys is
when there's only one bottled water or helping of stir-fried tofu left.

Natch, it's really GOOD tofu. I have to admit, between the Tex-Mex and
Asian cooking influences, one never has to worry about a lack of spices...

The_Beast

> wrote:

My UN fleet is light blue mainly because my Terran fleet is white and fully
painted. Let's face it, in historical games you have historical painting
guidelines. In SciFi the paint guidelines only exist in the minds of the
writer or the painter. Even taking a historical viewpoint, over time every wet
navy has had color changes of their ships.

Since my ships will be used on a primarily black mat I want to use lighter
colors for a good contrast. In this way the ships stand out and can be easily
seen in a picture.

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:21:52 -0600 Doug Evans <devans@nebraska.edu>
writes: <snip>
> John Leary sez:

Someone (Redleg IIRC) once asked me (after seeing one of my ethnic mix
sig blocks - AOL maybe) - if the Sauerkraut didn't run out of my
tacos...) the bigger problem is that it soaks the Blue corn taco shells {Blue
Corn Mush] and that Lox and Bagel doesn't always set well with the corned beef
and cabbage. The key is to make the choices on mixing ethnic foods!

LOL!

I really haven't tried Spanish - tied by blood - (as opposed to Mexican
-
by proximity and my Uncle's  marriage) dishes much - yet - and I have no
idea what dishes the Dutch heritage would/should have supplied?  My love
of Dark Chocolate from the latter perhaps?

Any excuse for good food!

Ah, the joys of a Los Angeleno (insert virtual tilde as appropriate)
childhood...

Gracias,

> On 21-Feb-04, at 5:20 AM, <warbeads@juno.com> wrote:

Pannekoeken (eggy pancakes - yum) and black salty candies (yech).

> Gracias,