> Beth Fulton wrote:
> As to the UN...
> I'd interrpreted the
Concur.
Maybe it's because in the Inner systems there are always a dozen or so mass
300 UN System Defence ships, plus the mobile fleet?
> (most people
I never thought of them as a token force, more the case that there are Command
and Control problems due to their forces coming from a wide variety of
backgrounds. A UN Admiral (on secondment from the ESU) commanding a Commodore
(on secondment from the NAC) is likely to cause problems at certain times.
Even an IAS Commodore commanding a mostly PAU crewed squadron would find
difficulties every day.
I, for one, figured that the relatively small OUDF "regular fleet" (as
opposed to the much larger semi-civilian patrol fleet) spends a lot of
its time in company with UN vessels. In fact, the OUDF could be (and has
been?) called an independent flotilla of the UN in the outer colonies.... much
like the current RAN is for most intents and purposes a DESRON of the US 7th
Fleet.
Hey, a CRURON here, a SuperDreadnaught there, and soon you have a real fleet.
Several real fleets. Numerical advantage vs even the NAC about 3:1, too bad
they can never get their act together so the fight would be about even.
> Just some slightly relevant raving for you.
Favour returned, with Interest....
G'day Alan,
> I never thought of them as a token force, more the case that there are
Due to my blissfully ignorant state of military command structure (I
usually leave it to Derek to scream/harumph/laugh loudly if I wander too
far off course on the topic), how does mixed command structure happen today
for these things (which is as good a place as any to start for how the UNSC
does it)? You obviously get lumps (platoons, battalions whatever) of troops
from the same nation, but I guess the commanders are more
higgledy-piggledy
nation-wise as you go up?
> I, for one, figured that the relatively small OUDF "regular fleet" (as
Same for the IAS and many of the other minor nations (epsecially those with
their major holdings within the Inner Systems).
Cheers
Beth
[quoted original message omitted]
> Beth Fulton wrote:
> Due to my blissfully ignorant state of military command structure (I
Joint operations with Foreign Powers is one of those areas that the DSTO
(Australian Defence Science and Technology Organisation, ie real not GZGverse)
is rather interested in. I did a small presentation to them a few months back
(went WAYY over time).
Summary: Very Ad-Hoc. INTERFET in East Timor is a good example.
Australian CiC, Thai 2iC, god-knows-who-this-week as 3iC, and the
individual units (platoons, companies, battalions) usually kept as
separate as possible. The US-led forces in Bosnia are another example -
but in this case, the Brit 2iC flatly refused to send in troops to the airport
to forestall the Russkis, as he thought it might lead to shots. Bad Juju,
Careers wrecked. But no casualties...
So in a 3000 pt force, you might have:
Sqdrn 1: UN SuperDreadnaught + 2 UN Escorts (Flagship), 1 PAU Frigate
Sqdrn 2: 3 OU Heavy Cruisers, 1 IAS Heavy Cruiser, 1 OU Escort Cruiser
Sqdrn 3: 3 Dutch Heavy Cruisers + 1 Indon. Escort Cruiser.
UN CiC OU 2iC Dutch 3iC
For the utter disaster that can happen under these circumstances, have a look
at the "Battle of the Java Sea" in 1942. The ABDA (Australian Britisch Dutch
American) force had real problems, like not being able to read each others
codes, having different standard operating procedures etc.
Now the UN forces will be FAR better at co-ordinating different
nationalities' navies than anyone else. But even they couldn't get the NI and
the IC to trust one another in battle. They'd prefer to have
traditional allies (say mixed NSL-NAC) grouped together, regardless of
relative speeds and other advantages, rather than have an ESU SuperDread
escorted by a Maria or Tegethof.
> >I, for one, figured that the relatively small OUDF "regular fleet"
(as
> >opposed to the much larger semi-civilian patrol fleet) spends a lot
> Peter wrote:
> Or getting it right would be the RAN in the Gulf in 1990/91. Same
That's the way it's supposed to work. In fact, an RAN ship (used to be,
anyway) was preferred as the Link Co-Ordinator, as the implementation
was more tolerant of foibles than either the USN Atlantic Fleet version or the
US Pacific Fleet version. As for the Steel Cat's link, I was involved in a
peripheral <pun intended> way with that, see my home page for details.
As to the Pac Fleet vs Atlant Fleet, it used to be said about the USN that if
you failed in the Pacific, you were sent to the Atlantic: If you failed in the
Atlantic, you were sent to the Med, and if you failed in the Med, you got sent
to the Indian Ocean fleet. Having heard some of
the old sea stories about the Indian Ocean fleet 15-20 years ago, I can
believe it.
> Then there's STANORFORALT, etc.
STANAVFORATLANT (Standing Naval Force Atlantic, ie 1 of everybody, 1 RN, 1
Canadian, 1 Dutch, 1 German, 1 USN). This used to be an exercise in, well, not
exactly futility, but was good for finding all the bugs in the SOP.