Torpedos... and similarities/differences between the wet navy and the vaccuum heads...

4 posts ยท Sep 15 1999 to Sep 15 1999

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:45:32 -0400

Subject: Torpedos... and similarities/differences between the wet navy and the vaccuum heads...

I have it on some good authority that some of the torpedos in the pipeline
from some of the naval weapons yards are quite capable of spine fracturing
especially on smaller ships. Add to which some have amazing stealth and
tracking capabilities. And if you look at the UUVs the USN is thinking of for
future combat, you'll have some idea of the intelligence that could
potentially be embedded into later generation torpedos.

Didn't someone author some rules for a non-ablating style of vessel
armour? With this in play, you'd have something for your cap ships a lot like
the armour belt that would render some small weapons nigh on to useless. If
that flavour is what you wanted, that is.

It seems to me when we compare sea and space naval vessels, the list of
similarities and differences:

Similarities:
Compartmentalization and bulkheading are vital for both - important
for wet navy for flotation and damage limiting, and for space navy for
atmosphere retention and hull integrity.
Ship can be mission-killed by removal of key systems (CIC, motor
control runs, fire directors, EW suite controllers, bridge).
Ships are tougher than we sometimes think - in both cases it would be
hard to completely disable a ship short of destroying it - you could
affect mobility, firing, etc. but the odds of the ship not being able to do
*something* are low. Small weapons in the right place can take out a key
system on both types of ship. Large areas can be damaged and not affect much
on both types of ship. In both types of ship, crew quality has a lot to do
with how good a
ship will perform and when it is mission killed - this includes "will
to fight", damage control ability, etc. In both types of ship, fire would be a
large danger in limited oxygen scenarios. Fuel leaks or powerplant damage
(fusion reactors cooking off, etc. in space) would be a hazard. In both cases,
good redundant systems design will help ameliorate most weapon effects. Things
like having one fire con or having a really weak hull with no armour or having
only one weapon that can fire in a given arc will all contribute to
problematic situations. Good design will ameliorate this. Both types of ships
are threatened by torpedos and other seeking weapons and are forced to
manoevre by that threat. In a similar way to the way mines affect land forces
(channelize), these threats force seaborne and spaceborne vessels to manoevre
to avoid them. This can be used in tactical planning.

Differences: Holed wet navy ship takes on water and mass and performance
character change. Holed space navy ships lose some atmosphere, maybe stuff
like water and fuel, and the only reason their performance envelope may change
is associated hull integrity effects reducing maximum thrust in the various
axes. In seaborne ships, gun directors have often been exposed making them
vulnerable to threats like HMGs and 20mms. In space, this is unlikely.

Just another 0.02.

From: Oerjan Ohlson <oerjan.ohlson@t...>

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:14:31 +0200

Subject: Re: Torpedos... and similarities/differences between the wet navy and the vaccuum heads...

> Thomas Barclay wrote:

> Differences:

And one more difference: There's no real reason not to use nukes in
space-to-space missiles, but there are strong reasons not to do this in
the sea - all the Greens will strangle you <g>

From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@m...>

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:55:51 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: Torpedos... and similarities/differences between the wet navy and the vaccuum heads...

> On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Oerjan Ohlson wrote:

> And one more difference: There's no real reason not to use nukes in

Well you hose your targeting systems for one. Can you say EMP effects?

From: Roger Books <books@m...>

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:14:57 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: Torpedos... and similarities/differences between the wet navy and the vaccuum heads...

> On 15-Sep-99 at 17:11, Ryan M Gill (monty@arcadia.turner.com) wrote:

When the intelligence guys went over the expected scenario for the carrier I
was on it went something like this (numbers not exact as it's been 10 years)

Expect 40-80 tac nukes fired at the carrier.  1/2 will miss because
of poor targetting systems. (20 left at best). Or stand off defenses (CAP,
other ships using ECM and using SAM's) will take out half of those left. Our
close in systems will get a couple more. After this 1 will hit and the rest
will be toasted by the fireball.

Intelligence told us they would be using tactical nukes, and lots of them.

Gave us a real warm-fuzzy feeling.