topic - rewriting (future) history....?

2 posts ยท Oct 27 2011 to Oct 29 2011

From: Don M <dmaddox1@h...>

Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 06:57:53 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: topic - rewriting (future) history....?

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Dear List

Whenever I consider "future history"-- that is, in the holy of
holies of
"What-If" history, I remmber whenever I go to the local Thrift
Store to peruse the book section to see what has washed up on "The Skull
Island" of the vast Sargasso Sea of salvaged cargo of local book collections,
I am reminded of the futility of this. Racks and racks of books are to be
found with such
super-sensational titles liek THE COMING FISCAL CRASY OF
2007! (written in 2000) or "THE COLLAPSE OF THE WESTERN WORLD (in 1992) etc.
Now and then a bit of treasure washes up (like a 1st edition of "The Waverly
Tales" or a book on some subject like games or backgammon or the like, but
most of it is books that really should never have been written.

I got my professional training and PhD in History late in life (as a labor of
love, not vocation) and I share the traditional disparagement of the
"What-If."
History is far more complex than that, but it's fun to speculate. When you
talk
about the future though you are into non-fiction novel land,
and like any novel, the characters do and say and feel what the author wishes
them to.

It's fun so long as you don't believe a word of what you write.

Even worse to act in accordance with it. If you don't believe me, talk to the
guys who are terribly dissappointed they didn't get "raptured" this year.

Human character and human society is far too chaotic, and human minds are far
too irrational to be able to live up to any predictability with the "laws of
history" (of which I believe there is not
one.)

You have to take into the conception the very, very very crooked timber of
humanity, which destroys all such analysis.

Let me give you an example.

If you could grab off your library William Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third
Reich, or similar history that dealt with the full glimpse of the Nazi Horror
including the death camps, and then hopped into your time machine and went
back to 1880, and showed it to anyone, they would say that this was the
obviously highly detailed but totally insane ravings of a diseased mind and
could NEVER, NEVER, happen. No one would ever admit, least of all the Jews
themselves that such a civilized nation as the Germans could EVER spawn such a
horror.

Let me give you one more.

In 1996 I was in the American Historical Association conference attending one
of the panels because one of my instructors from the graduate program was
presenting a paper. All the leading lights of Soviet Studies were there,
Tucker, Swett, VonHagen, etc. etc., and the question came up on history and
predictions. All
of the doyens of Soviet History-- NOW can clearly see the path of
downfall of the Soviet Union, but all of them admitted that at the time, just
a few years ago, had you come to them in 1988 and said to them how the Soviet
Union was going to collapse, they would have called you completely mad.

Interestingly as a follow on to this in 2003 I believe, I was at another AHA
conference and there was a panel of Russian Historians presenting on new
directions in Russian Hisoriography. It was very interesting. The
presentations were pretty harsh condemnations of the Soviet System and
Communism in particular and several American professors asked (some of them
almost pleading with emotionally charged voices, almost in tears, if the
Russian Historians could not find ANY positive accomplishments to the Soviet
Regieme. I remembe rone pleading "But surely, surely there must have been
SOMETHING positive about the Soviet Union! The grave men from the new Russian
Academies shook their head and demolished every point people tried to bring
up.

The point is simple.

We predict at our peril and it is well to
remember the words of Maceth--"All
Oracles Lie!"

Otto

From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@m...>

Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 22:57:37 +1100

Subject: Re: topic - rewriting (future) history....?

G'day,

> We predict at our peril and it is well to

That depends on how much detail you're after. USing agent based models we're
starting to be able to model some parts of the way history has played out,
especially around how civilisations form and end. Its not in super details,
just the general patterns. On a similar note, around your other post. For all
the crap they copped form economists when they first released their
predictions the Club of Rome got it about right if you go back and compare
what they predicted vs what has actually happened and on what time frame. So
if all you're afer is a rough sketch and not a fine technical drawing or
highly detailed piece of art I reckon you can do a pretty good job. That
"unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics" raising its ugly head again;)

Cheers