"Sorrow Killer" and such names reminded me of my Top Ten All Time Best SF
Books: Donald Kingsbury's Courtship Rite. If you haven't read it, it's
undoubtedly because you haven't found a copy yet (or else you're a drooling,
ignorant oaf who is really
hankering to get back to Games Workslop). When you do locate a
copy, you'll want to read it two or three times, because Kingsbury doesn't
stop the action to explain exotic
cultures--"exotic" is an understatement--and you'll see new
implications each time.
Since I'm sure you're all waiting with bated breath to find out what the other
nine are... (no particular order) Mote in God's Eye The Moon is a Harsh
Mistress The Warrior's Apprentice (Lois Bujold) The Island Worlds (Eric Kotani
& John Maddox Roberts)
A Fire Upon the Deep (Vernor Vinge) -- this is the one most like
Courtship Rite, by the way
Hm. That's only 10 if we're counting in base-6. So let's
consider The Ganymede Club (Sheffield), The Moon Goddess and the Son
(Kingsbury again), perhaps Civil Campaign (Bujold), and let's throw in a
Heinlein juvenile for old times' sake, say Space Cadet.
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Top Ten List was Re: KV Language
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 23:27:11 -0500
"Sorrow Killer" and such names reminded me of my Top Ten All Time Best SF
Books: Donald Kingsbury's Courtship Rite. If you haven't read it, it's
undoubtedly because you haven't found a copy yet (or else you're a drooling,
ignorant oaf who is really hankering to get back to Games Workslop).
BBi:*drool* I guess that's appropriate, since I've never read it nor HEARD of
it, but now I suppose I'kll have to (though I'm tempted not to just to be a
troublemaker)....
Since I'm sure you're all waiting with bated breath to find out what the other
nine are... (no particular order) Mote in God's Eye
BBi: I'm told it's excellent, it's on my "I've always wanted to read it,
just never go around to it" list.
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
BBi: Heinlein's my fire-and-ice author, I love some of his stuff, hate
the rest (Loved SST, Loathed Farnham's Freehold). This is by far and away my
favorite of his books.
The Warrior's Apprentice (Lois Bujold) The Island Worlds (Eric Kotani & John
Maddox Roberts)
BBi: Well, thanks so much for giving me more books to add to my "I'll have to
check that out" list (I need to assemble a list of lists. Sheesh).
A Fire Upon the Deep (Vernor Vinge) -- this is the one most like
Courtship Rite, by the way
BBi: See Mote
Hm. That's only 10 if we're counting in base-6. So let's
consider The Ganymede Club (Sheffield), The Moon Goddess and the Son
(Kingsbury again), perhaps Civil Campaign (Bujold),
BBi: See Warrior/Island above
and let's throw in a Heinlein juvenile for old times' sake, say Space Cadet.
BBi: Naw. If you're going to do a RAH Juvenile, go with Red Planet.
While I'm tossing in my coinage, might I also suggest the short story
collection Nightfall by Asimov, as well as just about anything... no, scratch
the just about, ANYTHING by Ray Bradbury.(I've yet to find any that was poorly
written, though The October Country and the Illustrated man were both too
spooky for my wimpy tastes)
On Sat, 1 Apr 2000 23:27:11 -0500, "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
wrote:
> Since I'm sure you're all waiting with bated breath to find out
Hmmm... Interesting post. I'm going to list mine, in no particular order
(these are novels, not necessarilby books, as I've left out some favoured
anthologies).
1. _Hyperion/Fall of Hyperion_ by Dan Simmons (really one book). The
universe Simmons puts together and the way he tears it apart is very good. And
Simmons writes very well...
2. _The Player of Games_ by Iain Banks. I've only read three of Banks
books
and have not read _Use of Weapons_. This is only the second of two
Culture books I've read.
3. _Ender's Game_ by Orson Scott Card. I don't agree with much of the
writer's own views, but he can tell one HELL of a story.
4. _Gateway_ by Fred Pohl. I tried, unsuccessfully, to create a board
game out of this. I still love the basic background story.
5. _The Forever War_ by Joe Haldeman. A classic!
6. _Count Zero_ by William Gibson. Okay, it was a toss-up between this
and
_Neuromancer_ but the opening chapter in _Count Zero_, where the main
character is killed, reborn, goes through his sexual rediscovery, and becomes
an adult once more is wonderful. So is the use of a mass driver as an
assassination tool.
7. _The Warrior's Apprentice_ by Lois Bujold. You could pick a number of
her Verkosigan books, but this was the first I read.
8. _Ringworld_ by Larry Niven. I find I can't read a lot of Niven these
days, but when I grew up I devoured his stuff. This was a favourite.
9. _Dune_ by Frank Herbert. Okay, I gave up after God Emperor of Dune
(though I hear Chapterhouse and Heretics aren't bad). Dune, though, was still
a cool book.
10. _Up The Line_ by Robert Silverberg. My favourite all-time time
travel novel.
I left out David Drake's books. Most of his Slammers stuff is actually
novelettes or novellas with a short story to wrap up the paperback. If I were
to put anthologies in, though, the original _Hammer's Slammers_ would be
there.
So would David Brin's _The Postman_ which is actually three novellas. I
don't know what Costner did to make what, I hear, is a stinker of a movie but
I
enjoyed the book. _Startide Rising_ would be on my list, but it's not
REALLY a full novel on its own.
My favourite set of anthologies was Jerry Pournelle's _There Will Be
War_
anthology. Good mix of stories in those 9 editions, including some classics.
Once I finish it, I can see _Snowcrash_ by Neal Stephenson will be on
the
list. I don't read a lot of sci-fi these days, though, so my list
probably isn't represented of much new stuff.
On Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:15:32 PST, "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Mote in God's Eye
If I extended my list beyond 10, it would be on it. Should PROBABLY be on my
list, but I can't remember that much about it, I read it so long ago. I hear
that the sequel that came out a couple of years ago was a dog.
This was the fate of one my favorite books, Rendezvous with Rama. It held me
enthralled, the sequels made me want to slap the good Mr.Clarke (though
I suspect most of the blame lays with his "Co-authors").
> Brian Bilderback wrote:
I've heard good things about Vinge. Is he any good?
> 5. _The Forever War_ by Joe Haldeman. A classic!
What was this, it struck a chord in my mind, and I need to know. I believe
I've read it but I read too damn much, and started way too young. Someone give
me some details so I can remember it and stop wondering. Oh, and since every
one seems to be saying it, well, I don't have ten, I
read too much and forget too quickly, but here's my TOP TWO SCI-FI
STORIES OF ALL TIME:
1. Number of the Beast by Robert Heinlein
2. Foundation by Isaac Asimov
See, proof that I'm strange.:)
I enjoyed Insurrection for it's descriptions of space battles. I know it is
based on the Starfire system but they can be adapted for FT.
Actually, if you'd read further, you'd have seen that I was responding to
someone who recommended this book. You'd have to ask him.
Brian B
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Mark A. Siefert" <siefert@milwpc.com>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Top Ten List was Re: KV Language
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 00:46:39 -0600
> Brian Bilderback wrote:
I've heard good things about Vinge. Is he any good?
In a message dated 4/2/00 1:17:59 AM Central Standard Time,
> conchart@geotec.net writes:
<< 5. _The Forever War_ by Joe Haldeman. A classic! >>
IF you have Heinlein's Starship Troopers and Haldeman's Forever War put them
next to bookends on your sci-fi shelf - they are looks at war from two
diametrically opposed points of view - no one who reads science fiction
or
war fiction should consider himself well-read until he has read both.
I just read this for the first time this year. Truly, a good read. For those
of us who like the other side of the coin, i.e. ground combat, read the
Regiment series by John Dalmas. Someone mentioned using teleportation as
the ultimate in mobile infantry - they use it in these books too. I've
read The Regiment and The White Regiment, I haven't gotten around to The
Regiment's War yet.
Brian B
----Original Message Follows----
From: Corey Burger <burgundavia@crosswinds.net>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Top Ten List was Re: KV Language
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 23:19:35 -0800
I enjoyed Insurrection for it's descriptions of space battles. I know it is
based on the Starfire system but they can be adapted for FT.
Corey
From: "Mark A. Siefert" <siefert@milwpc.com>
> > A Fire Upon the Deep (Vernor Vinge) --
> I've heard good things about Vinge. Is he any good?
When he's good, he's great. FOTD is on my "Top 10 SF books of the 20th
Century". Along with The Uplift Series, TMIAHMistress, Foundation series,
C4Liebowitz, 4EverWar, etc
> Laserlight wrote:
Oh, that's okay, you're a troublemaker anyway <g>
> Mote in God's Eye
You're really a Games Workslop fanboy who got onto this list by accident and
just haven't figured out how to unsub, right? <very big grin>
Seriously, Mote isn't a classic--it's a CLASSIC.
> The Warrior's Apprentice (Lois Bujold)
Sheesh).
You will probably have a hard time finding Island Worlds, sorry.
> A Fire Upon the Deep (Vernor Vinge) -- this is the one most
(pause to insert Siefert's comment: "is he good?" I wish to
point out that this is a Top Ten list).
(Afterthought: although I did consider inserting Cenotaph Road, simply because
it is one of the most encouraging books for new authors I've ever run across.
"If someone actually published this slop, then all I need to do is make the
time to get something written).
> let's throw in a Heinlein juvenile for old times' sake, say
Or Tunnel in the Sky, or Rocket Ship Galileo, or Star Beast, or
...
> Popeyesays@aol.com wrote:
Agreed!
STARSHIP TROOPERS is a very pro-military, right wing,
pre-Vietnam
book.
In a message dated 4/2/00 8:35:13 AM Central Daylight Time,
> laserlight@quixnet.net writes:
<< Or Tunnel in the Sky, or Rocket Ship Galileo, or Star Beast, or >> or
Podkayne of Mars, or Citizen of the Galaxy or, Puppet Masters, or..
. .
.
I hate top tem lists, you are alwways forced to leave off so much -Where
would one be if they had not read Destiny Road, Legacy of Hierot, or Beowulf's
Children, The Uplift Trilogy or the Practice Effect, or the Dragons of Pern,
or Island in the Stream of Time or......
> On Sun, 2 Apr 2000 11:44:38 EDT, Popeyesays@aol.com wrote:
> I hate top tem lists, you are alwways forced to leave off so much
That's a good point. And I've seen books on people's top ten that I gave away
after reading and shrugging at them. I saw one that I'd even put on my bottom
10 list. *L*
I noticed, though, that few would make really good topics for GZG rules. Some
would but a fair number would not. I wonder if we need a top ten list of books
suitable for conversion to FT, DS2, or SG2.
In a message dated 4/2/00 11:52:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
> agoodall@interlog.com writes:
<< I noticed, though, that few would make really good topics for GZG rules.
Some would but a fair number would not. I wonder if we need a top ten list of
books suitable for conversion to FT, DS2, or SG2. >>
With no attempt to put in order:
Footfall by Purnelle and Niven
Mote in God's Eye/The Grasping Hand, Niven and Purnelle
The Honor Harrington Stories The Flandry novels, by Poul Anderson Hammer's
Slammer, David Drake The Draka novels, by SM Stirling
This is more thanten books, so I'll quit - there are lots more - but I
hate top ten lists.
Thanks for recognizing my agitating abilities. *g*
I'm too poor and busy with a real life to ever have played anything by GW.
Hell, it was a splurge spending $4.00 yesterday on some used figures.
I found an interesting use for a WWII U.S. Lee tank (I THINK it's a lee
- I
always mix up the early US tanks. This is the one with a 75mm hull gun and a
30 mm turret gun). I took out the big hull gun. The sucker's got hatches and
window slits everywhere, so it's now a command vehicle. The machine gun turret
in top of the 30 mm turret is now a superior PDS (the one type of
vehicle where I will NOT go light on the defensive systems is a command
vehicle).
Then why the hell did you mention it? Now I can live my life a tortured
soul.... argh! Seriously though, I live about 1 mile from an excellent used
book store. Not the best in the world, but the best in San Diego. I'm
constantly amazed at their selection (My wife, for Christmas, went there and
bought me a wonderful, very intact hardcover copy of BH Liddel-Hart's
History of the Second World War. Yum. I still don't know why the hell a
quality woman like that married ME.), so I'm sure I have a good chance of
finding it.
Gee, that IS encouraging. I've been mulling over a story idea in my head, some
day I may bother to write it down, about a veteran of a future war with an
alien race. He lives in obscurity and loneliness and fear till one day the
military tracks him down, and recalls him to duty for one simple purpose, one
which he resists adamantly: They want ot pin a medal on him. He responds by
charging himself with war crimes. The rest of the story is about why he does
that and what it means for him, and for humanity. The
title I came up with is "Star Witness."
BBack
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: Top Ten List was Re: KV Language
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:30:33 -0400
Oh, that's okay, you're a troublemaker anyway <g>
You're really a Games Workslop fanboy who got onto this list by accident and
just haven't figured out how to unsub, right? <very big grin>
Seriously, Mote isn't a classic--it's a CLASSIC.
You will probably have a hard time finding Island Worlds, sorry.
(Afterthought: although I did consider inserting Cenotaph Road, simply because
it is one of the most encouraging books for new authors I've ever run across.
"If someone actually published this slop, then all I need to do is make the
time to get something written).
Here's one that should be added to these lists:
The Centauri Device by M. John Harrison.
"Dyne out, Mantou! Dyne-out!"
Andrew K.
[quoted original message omitted]
I don't want to start a flame war, but the Draka novels have a bit of a silly
premise.
There was no need for UEL to go to anywhere but Canada after those upstarts to
the south rebeled against their true government, but once they got to SA, to
travel overland from Cape Town to Cairo was impossible. Plus that Egypt was an
Ottoman Turk colony, who were nominally an ally of Britain.
But this is IMHO.
Polsoltechnic League by Poul Anderson. One of the first SF series I read and,
admittedly, it has flavored my SF view ever since.
I can't remember the specific book (been too long), but I remember several
space battles that were very interesting.
---
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net <mailto:bkb@beol.net>
http://members.xoom.com/rlyehable/ft/
---
[quoted original message omitted]
In a message dated 4/2/00 8:01:21 PM Central Daylight Time, bkb@beol.net
writes:
<< Polsoltechnic League by Poul Anderson. One of the first SF series I read
and, admittedly, it has flavored my SF view ever since.
I can't remember the specific book (been too long), but I remember several
space battles that were very interesting.
> [quoted text omitted]
The Flandry stories are set in the same univers just hundreds of years later
- if you haven't read the many Flandry books - read 'em you're in for a
treat
In a message dated 4/2/00 9:51:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
> burgundavia@crosswinds.net writes:
<<
I don't want to start a flame war, but the Draka novels have a bit of a silly
premise.
There was no need for UEL to go to anywhere but Canada after those upstarts to
the south rebeled against their true government, but once they got to SA, to
travel overland from Cape Town to Cairo was impossible. Plus that Egypt was an
Ottoman Turk colony, who were nominally an ally of Britain.
But this is IMHO.
> [quoted text omitted]
I won't quibble with your humble opinion - but silly premise or not we
were talking about "interesting books, to set games in the world of" which the
Draka books are unquestionably a good example.
I will have to agree with you on that matter. The march to Cairo would make a
really interesting campaign. The interest would be to see you could keep at
least 10% of your force alive as you travel through native kingdoms, wildlife,
and disease.
In a message dated 4/3/00 12:29:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
> burgundavia@crosswinds.net writes:
<< I will have to agree with you on that matter. The march to Cairo would make
a really interesting campaign. The interest would be to see you could keep at
least 10% of your force alive as you travel through native kingdoms, wildlife,
and disease.
> [quoted text omitted]
ACtually I was thinking of the space battle in the last book, the armor
battles described in that book and in "Marching Through Georgia"
primarily -
since these were the battles described in the book not part of the "premise".
Hey Corey,
The Draka backround may be a little silly for some...but there ARE some damn
fine scenario ideas in there. In fact a LOT!
Some of the Fifth Foreign Legion novels ar good too. Although a lot of teh
ideas verge on a DS rather than SG level.
Owen G
> -----Original Message-----
What about a top ten still in print. I've given up trying to track down great
but sadly hard to obtain novels such as the centauri device.
In a message dated 4/3/00 6:55:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
> timcjones@waitrose.com writes:
<< What about a top ten still in print. I've given up trying to track down
great but sadly hard to obtain novels such as the centauri device.
> [quoted text omitted]
Just in print now? That's going to take all the fun out of posting lists
refering to books most have never read... I don't know if that is compatible
with the public erudition of compiling top ten lists (LOL)
> Tim Jones wrote:
A while ago on the last run of the 'greatest books to read' thread Nyrath had
mentioned "People of the Wind", from which a game had been made (The Ythri).
I've had the game since I was a kid (though never played it; never found
anyone to play it with) and have always wondered about the book (since it's
mentioned in the rules that it was based on aforementioned book). I finally
went to amazon.com and they got me a copy (used, and a bit expensive, but it
was an OOP book). You might try there.
Mk
> Indy wrote:
There are other places to find out of print books.
http://www.pandora.ca/pandora/
http://www.abebooks.com/
http://www.bookfinder.com/
http://www.bibliofind.com/