Hey rob I really like the idea for the cards that you posted. It seems the
most loggical choice for the cards because the cards themselves don't target
specific weapons will leaveing all of the other key systems well defined on
the card for that particcular card. I also like the fact that when I comes to
weapons, the cards leave the damage to wich weapon in the hands of the
players, be it the controlling player or the opponet and that will add some
spice to the game. One thing that I have a question about is how do you use
the cards, I may have missed that in a earlyer post I don't know. But would
the normal rules still apply for the threshhold checks i.e. for the first row
of damage caused to the ship would you draw one card and on the second you
would draw two cards and continue to draw an extra card for each row that gets
damaged? If that is the case then that might need to be looked at, because
normally on each row you roll the dice for the checks and there is a chance
for more systems to be damaged with that method. If someone can clear things
up for me I would appreciate it.
Thanks Rick
[quoted original message omitted]
Alun Wrote:-
--but the extra complications of counting the number of systems
destroyed, and
--of working through them in size order sound like they'd slow play down
too
--much.
In the Society Fantasy Science Fiction Wargamers demo FT game they did away
with threshold rolls as it slowed the game too much and had a deck of
threshold cards. You took one card for the first threshold and more subsequent
thresholds.
The cards contained system failures and events such as draw more cards which
could simulate a cacscade failure. They were produced by James Clay. You could
buy them from him through the SFSFW. Can anyone remember clearer details?
It might be interesting to devise a set of core FT public domain threshold
cards (the intent is to *not* purloin the James Clay card content just the
general
concept :-) as an optional damage allocation system. I'd be interested
in the content of a deck to get the right statistical spread in relation to
dice rolling alternative (probability isn't my thing) and any ideas about what
people would put on such cards. Once the content is sorted out they could be
easily run off in a DTP or word processor.
The cards could then apply to any damage track allocation system ;-/
Sincerely Tim Jones
> timj@uk.gdscorp.com wrote:
> It might be interesting to devise a set of core FT public domain
Years ago I participated in a few Star Trek games where damage cards were
used. For every hit you drew a card. The cards had the ship systems on it and
the hull boxes as well. For every system and hull box there were two cards in
the pack (packs differed for every class) and there were a few funny cards
included (ship's pet killed, captain's bathroom
out,...)
> The cards could then apply to any damage track allocation system ;-/
Tim proposed the following capital idea:
> It might be interesting to devise a set of core FT public domain
Outstanding idea! I would be interested as well in seeing ideas on how
to replace the die rolls while maintaining the correct statistical curve for
damage. As I recall, James' cards were described as being more specific to
a certain TV-inspired genre, so a more generic set shouldn't conflict
with his work.
Deck size: 50-100 cards? I guess it depends on how often you reshuffle
them and the number of different results included.
Results: Certainly a bunch of "no effect" cards... I like the idea of some
cascading effect cards such as "internal explosions, draw two more cards" or
"catastrophic reactor containment failure - ship explodes!" This adds
more uncertainty and drama to the card draw.
Procedure: One card draw at first threshold check, two at second, etc.
These are some initial ideas. Any others?
> Ludo Toen wrote:
I plan to damage cards for my Dark Star scenario for similar reasons. This
helps speed up the game for threshold rolls and allows the designer to add
some otherwise meaningless items like "Ship's mascot killed.", etc. This can
help adding the humor flavor to a game.
In message <199703071806.NAA06932@cliff.cris.com> Mike Miserendino writes:
> Ludo Toen wrote:
This
> helps speed up the game for threshold rolls and allows the designer to
This
> can help adding the humor flavor to a game.
In the James-Clay-ran Star Trek: Full Thrust game that I played in
the humour element was covered by "Final Frontier Cards" that you might
occaisionally draw. First turn, first game I played I became
infested with tribbles. I was dead-in-the-water for seven turns
trying to rid my vessel of them.
Rob on threshold cards:
> Deck size: 50-100 cards? I guess it depends on how often you
The main problem with threshold cards is that all ships do not have the same
system.
"You loose the Wave Gun."-card reads
"All Right! I don't have a Wave Gun! No damage!"-player response.
Either obscure weapons will be less effected by threshold cards (more cards
mention "A" bats than Nova Cannons, so Nova Cannons are lost less
often) or "no effect" is the result (as above). If the if/then/else
option is on the cards ("Loose screen. If no screen then loose 1 PDAF") some
systems will still be more likely to be damaged. If it goes to random, then
why have the cards other than atmosphere ("Mr. Spike accidentally presses the
"Maintenance" button on the weapons console. The maintenance cover comes off
the Muon Projector before he can reset
it"-roll to determine which Beam weapon is damaged)? Also if it lists
specific damage, it will be important to reshuffle the cards frequently,
or have "reshuffle cards", to avoid people playing the odds on the threshold
cards (I'll draw for the escort first because there is only 1 card left that
removes Wave Guns).
Just some Ideas.
> On Sat, 8 Mar 1997, Brian Bell wrote:
> Rob on threshold cards:
> The main problem with threshold cards is that all ships do not have
The
> maintenance cover comes off the Muon Projector before he can reset
You could implement a system similar to the SFB damage allocation with each
card listing 5 or 6 systems or results and if a particular ship does not have
the first item go to the second etc. etc. until either a system
is damaged or no systems remain on the card which means no effect. YOu could
have cards with all special systems like nova cannon, ECM, cloak or you could
mix those systems as items 5 or six on each card. Someone would have to
generate some numbers of how frequent each item comes up on cards based on
mass, and how common the systems are used. For instance
A-batts, B-batts, and C-batts should appear on the cards way more often
than say cloaking device. An example of a set of cards might be:
Card 1:
1 A-batt
2 Pulse Torpedo 3 Fire control
4 Shield
5 ADAF
6 Sensors
Card 2:
1 B-Batt
2 C-Batt
3 A-Batt
4 Fire control 5 Wave Cannon 6 Fighter bay
Card 3: 1 Normal Drive
2 C-Batt
3 PDAF
4 Missile
5 Cloaking Device
6 A-Batt
etc. etc.
Rob and Brian on threshold cards:
> Deck size: 50-100 cards? I guess it depends on how often you
> The main problem with threshold cards is that all ships do not have the
> same system.
> often) or "no effect" is the result (as above). If the if/then/else
> some systems will still be more likely to be damaged. <SNIP>
Actually, what I had in mind was something like this:
Card examples:
No effect (lots of these) Lose one weapon, your choice. Lose one weapon,
opponent's choice. Lose two weapons, etc. (less of these, of course)
Drives damaged, 1/2 thrust
FTL destroyed Lose one fire control Lose one screen generator etc., etc.
(including the BOOM! and "internal explosion cards mentioned above)
These results could be mixed up and combined if desired or required to get the
probablities right.
Any other suggestions?
> Rob Pruden wrote:
Keeping the cards simple and generic could work well with any scenario.
However, I'm not sure about using the one where the opponent chooses the
weapon to be hit. This might not work if you are using sensors or hidden
damage. Of course it might be fun to give all weapons a 1 in n chance of
hitting a specific system like needle weapons.
Regarding Mike and Rick's comments:
Rick,
I'm not sure if the "draw one card at first threshold, two at second...,
etc." system will truly duplicate the effects of the existing die-roll
system. I merely suggested it as a starting point for discussion. Perhaps the
number of "internal explosions, draw 'x' more cards" would help simulate the
current probability system. I would imagine that you and others on this list
might have a better idea. I hope that we can continue this thread for a while
to come up with a workable system for cards.
The same goes for the "attacker chooses weapon destroyed" result that I
suggested. It gives a bit of additional randomness and drama without requiring
that the cards list specific weapons. We may be able to come up with a more
interesting alternative, however.
Any thoughts?