> Another esteemed member of the GZGverse wrote:
I'm not suggesting an allien invasion as means of implamenting Global unity!
Perry
-----------------
I am. I think it'd be the fastest (though maybe not safest) way to get us all
together on the same page. I keep thinking if this doesn't happen, we may
eventually let loose with biowar agents or nukes and it'll be game over for
the species. I sure hope not.... it'd seem a waste of a lot of effort our
ancestors put in. And if it happens before 2183, it'll sure make Jon look
silly;)
BTW, Brian, I thought your comment on letting in-place defenders pre
measure to terrain features was good. I think that is totally within the
spirit of things. Range stakes as it were! Yes, this is a very effective way
to judge ranges. Just like when we're playing on a 10x6 battlefield with
"seams", we know one board is 4' wide, another 2' wide, and another 4'
wide.... so you can guess some ranges a bit from
that (a design flaw I will rectify on my table - there shall be no
visible seam).
The one about measuring with checked shirts was a new one on me. THAT reeks of
cheese.... anyone I caught doing that would be laughed away from our gaming
table. Generally, I find that sound tactics have more to do with me winning or
losing that whether I let Herman the German (my fictional opposition) measure
something.
Just make sure everyone has the same vision before the start of a game (esp.
at a Con) and you're good to go. Fail to do that, and you might get an
argument later. To my mind, if someone new argues too much about stupid stuff
like this, they really aren't the kind of folk I'm
interested in spending time with. I've got better things to do - like
worry about what tactics my enemy might devise - rather than worrying
about arguing stupid details....
Tom, You raise a good point and one to consider for the Ground Zero
Games - East Coast Convention. In my opinion, the Gamemaster has the
final say and should state the ground rules for his or her table before the
game commences.
> Thomas Barclay wrote:
> Another esteemed member of the GZGverse wrote:
You'll note that in Rot Hafen, tesfane from teh UN is trying to use this
incident as a catalyst to bring greater UN control over teh entire 1st
intersentient war. This he hopes, (as do others around him and even within
various gov'ts), will serve as a springboard for, one humanity, one
government. (The outcome of which is beyond the scope of the story.)
> BTW, Brian, I thought your comment on letting in-place defenders pre
Note also that an aim action should inclue a free aim too along those lines.
"I can assure you all of one thing: THE FT UNIVERSE HAS NO GOOD GUYS!!!!"
- Jon Tuffley
I assume that the UN is included in the above statement.
Or to paraphrase someone else: "One man's rebel is another man's freedom
fighter."
---
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net <mailto:bkb@beol.net>
http://members.xoom.com/rlyehable/
---
[quoted original message omitted]
> On Sat, 21 Aug 1999, Thomas Barclay wrote:
> Another esteemed member of the GZGverse wrote:
note that you don't actually need an alien invasion - you just need the
appearence of one (think Alan Moore + Dave Gibbons' "Watchmen" or even
some modern conspiracy theories). perhaps that's why the UN has a weapons
programme - they develop new drives and railguns and fake the KV
invasion to get humanity to fall in line (i know it's nuts, but there will be
people in the Tuffleyverse who believe that:)).
> it'd seem a
modern SF dogma states that the purpose of SF is not to predict the future,
but, by illustrating possibilities, to shape it. insofar as we can consider St
Jon's timeline SF, we shouldn't expect it to be borne out (the fact that it
refers to the now sort of defunct EC is pushing at this already).
> The one about measuring with checked shirts was a new one on me. THAT
hmm, so what about my very precisely drawn tattoo?:)
tom
> > I'm not suggesting an allien invasion as means of implamenting
You see, this is *exactly* what the Illuminati want people to believe. Global
Unity is directly counter to their goals, so they'll be working to convince
people that the whole Kra'Vak incursion is a hoax, used by the UN to further
their plans of universal domination.
Trust me, those mysterious "Black Starships" are not UN property.
Fnord, everyone.
> -----Original Message-----
From: Bell, Brian K <Brian_Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
To: 'gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU' <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 08:11 AM
Subject: RE: The UN
> I can see it now. A new government for the Tuffleyverse:
Ruby Ridge. A
> group that have settled thier own worlds to get away from
Delete "Ruby Ridge" insert "Alarishi Empire", thanks
Don spake thus:
Looking over this list, the thought that occurs to me is this: what's the
difference between the UN and any other nation-state? If it has it's own
citizens, it has de facto sovereignty. Checking over the rest of the list the
UN seems just like every other nation in the GZG universe (or many nations
IRL). What makes it interesting is that an international organization has
(seemingly) gone from a forum of independant nations to being a nation in and
of itself. How long will it take for that nation to look out for it's own
interests, as opposed to the putative interests of its member states? Of
course, going by the "there are no good guys" rule we could say that this is
exactly what's going on. A Great Power claiming the moral high ground (working
for All Humanity) and cyniclly manipulating the diplomatic situation to
increase it's own power, at the expense if it's rivals... errr member states.
Hmmm, anyone else now suspicious of the
Kra'Vak incursion? Finally, GZG UN that I can believe in. :-)
** Seems likely to me. Now the cynic in me says this is happening today.
Adding some independent citizens (small in number, but high in education),
some revenue generation, and some more military teeth will only accelerate the
process. Their are probably those working for the aims of humanity (the
idealists - if I thought I could be a citizen of Human Space by giving
up local citizenship, I'd think about it myself) and those working to build
their local mini-feudality up in power and control. Some doing both...
Or, since there are no good guys, they are increasing their control over the
important centers of power in the Human Sphere, and the backwards colonials
can sod off, unless they can be used as a pretext for weaking the traditional
Great Powers.
** It'd probably be sold that the Colonies can't be policed right now, but
when the UN has the resources, it will extend its *protection* out to the
colonies too. Ask any Martian about what its like to deal with a powerful
government that has Colonial aims...
** Someone asked about UN HQ: I'd sort of assumed that their On-Earth HQ
was in Stockholm or Geneva, and off Earth on a place I named New Geneva (can't
remember where I put it on Nyrath's Map). I figure the UN (like the NAC Crown)
has extended to having an on and off Earth capital. I'd think NY was inviable
after the American collapse that precipitated the NAC creation. So I figured
they'd move to Geneva or Stockholm.
> Rob Wrote:
Same reason it generally keeps the peace now--it's in everybody's best
interests. Plus they can tip the balance against the one who breaks the
rules, which doesn't take an enourmous force, but a decent one.
** Precisely. And my argument for making them good at covert ops and intel is
that allows "subtle" manipulation (fits in with Don's thoughts on their real
agenda) and it doesn't cost huge bucks for large fleets... nor does it make
the UN's members (read: sometime competitors) as threatened as big fleets...
And if I remember my Canon history, they didn't keep it completely out of the
Inner Colonies, just the Core.
** Sure, but the Inner Colonies weren't wrecked so I assume the UN could limit
the conflict.
> Beth Wrote:
Due to my blissfully ignorant state of military command structure (I
usually leave it to Derek to scream/harumph/laugh loudly if I wander too
far off course on the topic), how does mixed command structure happen today
for these things (which is as good a place as any to start for how the UNSC
does it)?
** Well, if you're a Yank, you don't like or can't put yourself under UN
control (heh) and you tend to be the most experienced and trained in large ops
so if there is a big one, you end up running the show.;)
You obviously get lumps (platoons, battalions whatever) of troops from the
same nation, but I guess the commanders are more
higgledy-piggledy
nation-wise as you go up?
** Generally I believe there is a rotation of officers through command slots
in UN forces. You command the troops at the time in your command area. They of
course have their own officers subordinate in theory to your orders as
commander though I'm not sure it always works the way it should. The problem
in part is the politicos at the UN have often messed with operations or with
ROE to handcuff the soldiers badly. This is part of the US problem with being
under UN command.
** I believe it likely that in 2183, independent UN ops are commanded by UN
people (I believe their sneak and peak and covert ops are all UN staffed).
Large ops involving other nation states (or even smaller continuing
anti-piracy, anti-drug, etc ops) probably have a mix of officers. Any op
where the UN plays second fiddle in contribution means it won't probably be in
charge. In this sense, it is now a player as much as it is the coordinator. It
has to apply some discretion to abuses of this power, or all the other major
powers will have causus belli and it'll be game over UN. The UN needs their
cooperation and support. I suspect they've outlined in no uncertain terms to
the UN that it need not interfere much in the outer colonies if it doesn't
want its wings clipped... so the UN must approach this goal slantwise. I
assume the Xenowars will give the UN some decent pretext for action. Some
idealists in the UN structure will probably be interested in safegaurding
small colonies from imperialism of the major powers, and others less noble
will use this excuse to try and Imperialise them under UN *protection*.
** It seems likely to me that the UN has a training facility for its staff
in orbit and/or on off-Earth holdings like New Geneva. No doubt their
are exchanges between that facility and Sandhurst, Annapolis, RMC, St.Cyr,
Heidelburg, and many other military academies across Terra and in space.
This cross training is probably to the advantage of all - and
coincidentally to the advantage of the UN in homogenizing humanity (a hidden
UN goal) and probably in the XenoWars a big plus too.
** Just my 0.02 as usual (especially when our code base server is
offline...)