Terrain

I seem to recall seeing bags of styrofoam hexes at a gaming store in Houston.
Would anyone know who the manufacturer or a sales point for these are? I have
recently discovered
the joys of a "wonder-cutter" and flocking but would like
to be able to do hex based stuff.

I'm planning on using this with SG, so it is almost on-topic. :)

> Roger Books wrote:

Geo-Hex ? Their name pretty much sums up what you're looking for ...

http://www.geohex.com/geoindex.htm

> on 4/9/01 10:11, Roger Books at books@mail.state.fl.us wrote:

> I seem to recall seeing bags of styrofoam hexes at a gaming

If there's about 6 inches or so across they could be GHQ's terrain maker
systems stuff. I don't have much experience with this system as I'm more use
to using GeoHex's terrain.

> I seem to recall seeing bags of styrofoam hexes at a gaming

There are several sources, depending on the size you want:

GHQ Miniatures produces 4 inch span hexes in a variety of thicknesses.

GeoHex produces much larger hexes that you can get "plain" from KR (about 12
inches IIRC)

***
Geo-Hex ? Their name pretty much sums up what you're looking for ...

http://www.geohex.com/geoindex.htm
***

Far as I know, KR's excellent material is all finished, so if it's DIY you
want, you have to look elsewhere.

I know there was an outfit that did smaller raw hexes, maybe 4-6"
across,
but it was bead-foam, and nothing I'd suggest. They did have nice DIY
trees, as I recall.

I think, if you're intent on doing the work, you might as well get slabs of
insulation from home building stores, layout hexes on it, and
slice/split
with very fresh, long razor knives. (I've found you can do surprising well
on thinner sheets using a fully-extended 'break off' bladed knives with
a sawing motion. GREAT CARE AND A STABLY LOCKING KNIFE REQUIRED!)

Not terrically difficult, but Geo-Hex's quality is hard to match.

On the side, has anyone tried decorative sprayon snow on terrain?

As Tony Francis said, Geo-Hex makes styrofoam hex terrain. However,
GHQ (http://www.ghqmodels.com/terrainmaker.htm) makes a system
called terrain maker, which may be the one you seek.

Comparison:
Geo-Hex:
Large hexes, mostly plain surfaces. Slopes are done by making partial hexes.
Pre-finished out of the box.
Fast, easy set-up
Looks good with many mini scales

Terrain Maker
Much smaller hex size than Geo-Hex
Slopes are carved out of the foam. Unfinished (takes many hours to make a
playable set...) Small hex sizes take much longer to set up. From a distance,
looks very realistic. Looks best used with 6 mm.
Can be hard to get 1/2" sheets of polystyrene.

Personally, I prefer the visual appearance of Terrain Maker, but I wish the
hexes were just a bit bigger, maybe 6". One thing I really like, is that
because Terrain Maker spreads slope out over the whole hex, you could have an
entire table with no flat areas, if you wanted to. I do feel that the default
Terrain Maker hexes do not scale to anything other than 6 mm.

If you plan on DIY, I would probably buy one terrain maker pack, for no other
reason than to get the booklet on how to cut the different hex "kernels." I
would then scale the
hex sides to 6"-8".

> I seem to recall seeing bags of styrofoam hexes at a gaming

HTH,

> on 4/9/01 10:38, Kevin Walker at sage@chartermi.net wrote:

> If there's about 6 inches or so across they could be GHQ's terrain

It appears I was remembering things incorrectly here. As Sean pointed out
GHQ's system is 4" hexes. Oh well, I'm getting older and don't remember the
details as well (it would help if I'd use the system at some point though).
;-)

> Far as I know, KR's excellent material is all finished, so if it's DIY

You can get it unfinished on request...

GHQ

Michael Brown

[quoted original message omitted]

I've ordered a couple sets of GHQ stuff to check it out (flat and low hills).
I've also seen using the EPS stuff from Lowes. Anyone know if that stuff cuts
with a hot wire cutter? I like
the way the wonder-cutter zips through styrofoam.

Roger asked:
> I've ordered a couple sets of GHQ stuff to check it out (flat and

EPS is Expanded PolyStyrene ie styrofoam--yes, your hot wire will cut
it. Use only in a well ventilated area.

Those sound like GHQ's terrain system. Hexes about 3" across? That'd be them.
They look really good, their how-to book on terrain features Tarawa in
1/285.
More work than I'd like to do for terrain.

> --- Roger Books <books@mail.state.fl.us> wrote:

> Those sound like GHQ's terrain system. Hexes about 3" across ? That'd

The only problem I had with the GHQ system is that the hexes were just too
small. You have to prepare about a jillion of them in order to cover an
average sized table.

Yes, a Wonder Cutter will cut EPS. The product to avoid in the pink
stuff -
often called "pink death" by installers. The dust and fumes from working with
that stuff can be injurious to your health.

KR

[quoted original message omitted]

EPS is NOT styrofoam, styrofoam is the very hard almost crystal looking stuff
that is used as the basis for wreaths and such in the floral hobby. ALL the
white stuff we've used over the years to make terrain is EPS, no one uses
styrofoam, we just call it that!

KR, Geo-Hex

[quoted original message omitted]

> EPS is NOT styrofoam,

well....if by "styrofoam" you mean only "the stuff that fragments into beads
at any provocation", then you're right.

> styrofoam is the very hard almost crystal looking

Open cell, closed cell, EPS, etc, everyone calls it styrofoam (unless
you're selling the expensive kinds--static control, or flame
retardant, or milspec, or something--in which case you don't call it
"styrofoam" in front of the customers). Comes in different densities, etc. By
the way, you can get it in at least 10" thicknesses (something like 10x24x96")
from some industrial supply houses...CE Thurston in my area (Virginia), I
don't know how wide a territory they have. Or a marine supply house might call
it "floatation baulks" or "billets".

Of course, if you get it that thick, you won't be cutting it with a hot wire.

Now you tell me, after buying 2 sheets large enough to cover my 5x9' table
twice.
}8^(

Is the blue stuff just as bad? That seems to be my choices...really beady
white sutff, dense pink stuff, or dense blue stuff.

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
-----

> -----Original Message-----

> On 12-Apr-01 at 02:00, Laserlight (laserlight@quixnet.net) wrote:

If you search the net you will find articles where sailboard fanatics are
making their own foamcore sailboards, they start with a hot wire cutter. The
blanks are thicker than 10".

I have a wire cutter that has a thicker wire that forms various loop shapes.
Very useful for doing scooped shapes such as craters, lakes, emplacements.
Also good for crevices in the side of hills.

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
-----

> -----Original Message-----

Well, I've been working on the hexes I purchases from GHQ. They can be time
consuming if you don't use decent technique...

Here is what I am doing:

Buy a big jug of Mod Podge (white glue) and a bottle of your favorite underlay
color craft paints. I use Aleens Dusty Sage and Burnt Umber.

Pour off half the glue into another container. Mix glue and paint.

If you want roads draw lines with a sharpie. I prefer doing 1cm in from the
corners.

Paint the sides, I use the Burnt Umber. Don't worry about being sloppy. Put
green glue on and flock with your favorite grass, put brown glue on and put
road flocking on. Let dry and wet with
a 50%glue/50 water mixture or woodland scenics cement.  Let dry
and use.

I do one side straight green/grass flocking and the other side with
a road section.

It seems time consuming but my total invested time for 24 was about 2 hours
once I figured out how to go.

I wouldn't bother with the odd sizes, they might work well for a DS game but
for a 25mm or 15mm game it just doesn't scale right. I'll cut some slopes and
stack.

The only problem I have had is after laying out the tiles my girlfriend
informed me she was buying me a little golf cart to play with on my little
golf course.

BTW, if anyone is interested in the Strike Force Alpha rule, the following
folks have a copy for sale:
http://www.nobleknight.com

It's under "Wagames and Miniature rules"
listed under "Zocchi/Gamescience"

(No Space Patrol rules though:o)

> Well, I've been working on the hexes I purchases from GHQ. They can

One very good tip for bead polystyrene I got from Practical Wargamer mag (when
it still existed) is to use kitchen towel
and acrylic decorating filler to re-inforce the tiles.

Take the acrylic decorating filler and dilute with water until you get a
mixture like pancake batter. Take the kitchen towel and tear into sections (
2" x 2") and apply filler mixture with a very stout brush to saturate the
towel and laminate it.

This mixture goes off and is rock hard and makes the tiles
very very durable. Then carry on with flock/base procedure
as outlined by Roger.

Has anyone got experience with using the acyrlic/fibre grass
flocking that is used on professional terrain such as TSS.

I have a bag full of it but can't get it to stad up as on the pro tiles.

They aren't ALL breakaway NACs. The FSU is from the NSL, while Nova Moravia
(now a part of RH, but independent for a while) is from the the NSL as well.

As an aside, the FSU's Navy is the Union Space Navy (USN), with a
corresponding USMC...hehehe.

At least according to the ditties I've written up. I really MUST get my FT
site back up so that the GZGpedia actually has something to link to for the
FSU.

Rob

[quoted original message omitted]

Anyone tried cutting foamcore with a hot wire cutter? If so, how well did it
work?

> On 1-May-01 at 08:02, Laserlight (laserlight@quixnet.net) wrote:

I wouldn't expect the hot wire cutter to be able to cut the paper on the
outside of the foamcore...

> Anyone tried cutting foamcore with a hot wire cutter? If so, how well

Not. The paper won't cut with the hot wire. Better to use a matte knife.

> On Tue, 01 May 2001, Roger Books wrote:

> I wouldn't expect the hot wire cutter to be able to cut the paper

Some foamcore consists of thin sheets of styrene sandwiching a layer of dense
foam. That MIGHT be fine with a hot wire cutter, but I'd assume that the
styrene would melt along the edge. Instead of a square cut you'd end up with a
round cut.

The preferred method of cutting foamcore is a sharp knife. Change blades often
and it should cut just fine. Cut in two or more passes, not all at once. Use
putty or other filler for the cases where the foam doesn't cut properly and
leaves a hole or divot along the cut edge.

> agoodall@canada.com wrote:

A hot wire cutter wouldn't go through styrene (or at least the one I
have wouldn't) - even if it did, you'd end up with a blackened edge to
the styrene with molten gunk that would need cleaning up.

Here in the US, the pink Owens-Corning and blue Dow sheet insulation
sold in most building supply centers in 4' x 8' sheets is called Foamcore by
trade name. Don't know if Laserlight was referring to this stuff or the
foamcore stuff sold in art supply stores that looks like posterboard. I am
about to do some terrain in the building supply stuff and will try using my hw
cutter and let the list know of my results.

Chuck

[quoted original message omitted]

***
I am about to do some terrain in the building supply stuff and will try using
my hw cutter and let the list know of my results.
***

This may be the stuff that KR referred to as 'pink death'; whatever you do,
check your ventilation.

Come to think of it, that's probably as important a call to make for
hobbyists, whether spray painting, using adhesives, or cutting styro, as the
one the aviators use. Instead of 'check your six'...

Check your ventilation. ;->=

The_Beast (who is STILL certain he saw some blue stuff with the word
'styrofoam')

-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon

One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler

> Here in the US, the pink Owens-Corning and blue Dow sheet insulation

> This may be the stuff that KR referred to as 'pink death'; whatever

It is indeed, and I will be taking the necessary ventilation precautions to
work with it. My company does some work with toner cartridges so we have put
in some serious ventilation facilities for that work.

> The_Beast (who is STILL certain he saw some blue stuff with the word

You aren't imagining things, they still print styrofoam insulation on the
boards, just in the construction industry they refer to it as foam core (or
so my brother-in-law contractor tells me).  I was at my local Home Depot
this weekend pricing sheets and the shelf labels where they had it stacked
called it foam core as well.

Foamcore is fairly durable. The bonus of adding buttresses and other
stiffeners is that it adds detail and a third dimension to otherwise plain
walls. If you have a look in your local DIY shop (B & Q...) you will find
strips of wood and doweling. The Strips are plain or shaped, some into very
useful shapes for a detail strip. The dowel includes fluted ones suitable for
pillars. For cheapskates you can get bags of dowel pegs for woodworking that
are fluted.

DIY shops are wonderful places to just walk around, seeing the many and varied
products, many of which have interesting and useful shapes. I have also been
hoarding empty laser printer toner cartridges for
terrain making. The Oki and Xerox NC-60 printers might
be rubbish [ALL Oki LED printers that I have used have
been nothing but trouble and the NC-60 bled out (note:
NEVER buy a printer that needs an oil cartridge)] but
the cartridges are nice: The NC-60 toner especially
came in little hoppers that will make wonderful silos for industrial terrain
while the Oki ones, long cylinders with flanges need a little bit more work to
use. Don't worry, the boring ones (HP) go for 'real' recycling.

I have found some interesting ways of detailing terrain:
Blowtorch - fine until the polystyrene caught fire,
then I bought a hot air gun (don't do this inside). A surform is really much
better but incredibly messy.

BB Gun. My brother loves to shoot up the buildings as part of the distressing
process. Airguns don't work as well and though I am tempted to try a shotgun I
suspect that this is an unbelievable bad idea (remember the hypervelocity
penetrators in Drakes 'At the Sharp End'?)

Wooden spills (thank you chemistry department) are
great for tatty wood, especially for half-timbered
buildings.