From: Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@j...>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 04:03:53 PDT
Subject: Tending to wander OT as I feared Re: Fiji in space but back on earth, oy ve?!?!?
On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:34:14 -0700 (PDT) John Leary > <john_t_leary@yahoo.com> writes: When we get to racism per se we are bound to go OT, not that I don't mind discussing it off list, without great effort to refer things to the Tuffleyverse. And, to edge OT briefly, I find historically that the number and classes of races has varied in the sources I have accessed between 3 and 5 between 1890 and today. And that is just in American sources. In scripture Paul calls his Jewish ancestors and contemporaries a 'race' in at least one translation I can think of. Basically Race, anytime we go past Human, is a fiction we invent to make life less confusing - "US" and "Them." Hence it is something many hold dearly to because it a human trait to have faith in things that are simplifying/pleasing/gratifying/ego enhancing even if we suspect they might not be truly universal or hold up to scrutiny. and this order applies > throughout Asia. I am unsure if you mean racism exists all through Asia (agreed, it's a human failing) or that this order is the same in all of Asia - i.e., China, Japan, and Indonesia have the same order of favoritism? ( I have an ethnically Chinese Indonesian friend at church (directs both my daughters' choirs and sings with my wife in the Chancel Choir) who would tell you that being Chinese in Indonesia is definitely _not_ a good thing (but there are others who have it worse.) And I think the article that called the Chinese the "Jews of SE Asia" pretty much hit it on the head, Singapore not withstanding. > 1) Ethnic Chinese Heck, it was the bottom of the list in the towns around Sheppard AFB, TX, in the 1970's! We had lists of facilities (restaurants, not just the usual 'watering holes') that we were forbidden to go to by the base command because it was deemed 'unsafe' to eat there if you were identified as USAF. We had a young (Caucasian, East Coast state, I forget which, maybe upstate New York,we had a lot of those in my flight) guy who went to one of these places to have a dinner off base, became involved in an incident, the other people were cited by the police as instigators, and he still got an article 15. And rightly so because it was a 'bad thing' to be USAF in those towns. Completely different from the situation around Lackland AFB where you were generally appreciated, there were reasonable numbers of retired USAF types in the community who were considered 'pillars' of the community, and there was generally good relationship between the base and the community. Heck, a few of my friends who were Seventh Day Adventists (not exactly common in the USAF or around Sheppard AFB) found that when they went to church in the community just outside the base (we all decided to attend a service at a local Lutheran church in town because it was reputedly 'military friendly' although it mostly to get off base for the ones who weren't technical training students but were single) the only people who were interested in socializing with them were the Pastor's family. I guess that would be "Uniformism'? <grin> Human beings find all kinds of ways to divide up into us and them. NSL versus FSE in the Tuffleyverse is a classic in my non-European mind. We had pecking orders in Los Angeles. They varied by community frequently. There were places where I said I was Caucasian (true although not completely true) and there were places where I let it be known I was latino (on my mother's side) because it made life "S and S' - Safer and Simpler. Never mentioned the Cherokee part of the background because it would only have been a negative during those years (1950's and early 1960's.) And Southern California was basically pretty laid back about such issues most of the time, unlike here in Saint Louis, MO. Definite NSL territory! <grin> As I see the Tuffleyverse background, John seems to have replaced Racism with "Supra-national" groups (obviously fictitious NAC, almost as improbable ESU, NSL, FSE, unlikely and probably unwieldy IC, etc.) because this is more palatable to our 20th Century minds. Almost certainly an improvement for the game setting. I guess Xenophobia is Humanity's reflex to replacing 'supra-nationalism' which 'replaced' overt racism? Not that i have a complaint about the lack of racism in the Tuffleyverse, I just think it is an interesting 'change' in the human condition in the game parameters. Has a certain appeal in some ways to me. Although I doubt it ever could actually happen. > Bye for now, Unless others continue this thread, I plan to let it either wither or go off list at this point. Gracias,