Tactics Question

> John Fox wrote:

First, vector or Cinematic? Two different stories. Thrust 8 is nice in vector,
but not necessary. Especially for big ships. What sort of tactics is he using
with his superior speed?

> Greetings:

I would suggest a hedgehog type defense. Lower thrust ships with lots of
multi-arc weapons. As he buzzes about you with higher thrust ships, let
yours sit in a cluster and beat him silly with superior firepower. There's no
way he can slug it out with you if he has that much MASS devoted to engines.

----Original Message Follows----
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:56:27 -0800 (PST)
From: John Fox <jfox@verity.com>
Subject: Tactics Question
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU

Greetings: I am in a campaign game using Full Thrust (and More Thrust but not
fleet book) and have come up on a certain situation. One of the other players
has decided to build all his ships (including the big ones) at thrust 8
(eight). What is a good response to this condition?
  Should I also start to build my ships at thrust - 8?
I do not like this idea due to the cost. Should I continue to build stuff as
always (esscots thrust 8, cruiser thrust 5 big ship thrust 3 or 4)?

Any tactical advice as to how to overcome this.

  John Fox

> Greetings:
There's
> no way he can slug it out with you if he has that much MASS devoted to

What Schoon said. Plus a few well-placed needle beam shots will slow
his day...

:-)

(note, I'm not advocating full needlebeam-armed fleets, but a few
specialty ships with needlers now and again will give him pause for thought..)

Mk

> One of the Johns wrote:

> First, vector or Cinematic?

Probably Cinematic - he's not using the FB.

Or stop and do the gun turret in space. A speed 0 you can face any arc. Its
circle the wagon train and let his indians ride around at high speed, except
your setters have got the equivalent of gatling guns.

> Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:
There's
> no way he can slug it out with you if he has that much MASS devoted to

Ahhh... but he said he wasn't playing with the FB. MASS isn't a factor for
engines in the old construction system, only points. With the old rules he
could very well have 100 MASS ships with thrust 8 drives... I think you've all
heard about my gripes about certain FT players to know were I'm going with
this. (I bet you he has level 3 screen, yes?) But Schoon, Jim and Indy are
right. The hedgehog tactic works in this
situation.   It also will help to throw some some screen busters into
your armory as well (needles, p-torps, sub packs).  Sooner or later, his
exercise in munchkinism will cost you the game. Histroy is a great teacher of
this example: Nazi Germany may have been able to build quality arms and
vehicles, but the Allies could build more of what it needed to defeat them.
Keep this in mind the next time you go up against him.

> Schoon wrote:
There's
> no way he can slug it out with you if he has that much MASS devoted to

But since they are using FT and MT but NOT the FB, mass is not a factor, just
cost. So you should be building more ships than him for the same cost. Let him
build his expensive fleets while you begin to outnumber him, more and more as
time goes on...

Los spake thusly upon matters weighty:

> I have to agree with the German/Allied analogy. Concentrate on MORE

More is better, especially if you get more the way the soviets did
building tanks near the end of WW2 - superb, robust, affordable tanks
in vast numbers. High in quality and large in number. The Germans, OTOH,
seemed to produce excellent tanks with good guns and tough armour but they
seemed to be more expensive to produce. The Americans
had the third strategy - crappy tanks in incredible numbers and an
airforce to kick butt.

Basically, build more vehicles with heavy armour and a heavy throw weight or a
lot of torps and beams. Let him use his superior thrust
to tour the universe - he still has to come to where your formation
lives and there you have the armour and FP and maybe numeric advantages too.
Fight the fight on YOUR terms, and your enemy will have a hard time winning.

/************************************************

I have to agree with the German/Allied analogy. Concentrate on MORE with
better weapons and armor. He may be very manueverable, but he's gotta come at
you sooner or later, then what?

Greetings: I am in a campaign game using Full Thrust (and More Thrust but not
fleet book) and have come up on a certain situation. One of the other players
has decided to build all his ships (including the big ones) at thrust 8
(eight). What is a good response to this condition?
  Should I also start to build my ships at thrust - 8?
I do not like this idea due to the cost. Should I continue to build stuff as
always (esscots thrust 8, cruiser thrust 5 big ship thrust 3 or 4)?

Any tactical advice as to how to overcome this.

John and the net: The game we are playing is a modified rules. The ships move
slowest first then fire fastest first. This was our attempt to make sure the
escorts got to fire before being turned into space dust. They still get turned
into space dust but usually et at least one shot before going poof.
Background: Campaign game where each player has several systems which he
develops and exploits for resources to build ships. (some day I will publish
the rules,,later). The movement is cinematic (as in the FT and MT books). His
basic (and most peoples) tactic is to form line abrest and charge into the
other's line taking out cruisers and heavies as his first targets. After
getting through he wheels around to behind. Up to now I have been able to beat
him off by using large numbers of ships and pouring on the firepower. There
are too ways I can go with this. 1) Continue to build ships as I have been.
This gets me more ships and more weapons on target. 2) Start building thrust 8
ships to match him.

I am thinking that the first option is the best. I presently am building alot
more cruisers and battleships (not superdreadnoughts) as I think the cruisers
give me a very good bang for the bug. (cruiser with 4 As and one screen)

(Battleship with 5 A and two screens). He is using a modified Kra'Vak race.

  John

> John Fox wrote:

> John Fox wrote:

> He is using a modified Kra'Vak race.

There you have the problem in a nutshell. In FT2, Kra'Vak are
undercosted. So, if I were you, I'd make some thrust-2 grossly armoured
monstrosities that ooze railguns.