From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@a...>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:11:33 -0400
Subject: Supplement Survey Results [Long]
Here are the results of the great supplement survey. I received a greater response than I expected. There were 55 responses (including my own, which I recorded before I sent out the survey). As well as the results, I've included some objective analysis. After the results I'll include some comments supplied by the respondents. Jon, let me know if you want the actual surveys. The one thing the surveys have over this analysis is that you can see actual correlation between the results of one question and another. Normally I'd do this kind of full analysis myself but--frankly--I don't have the time. I'll e-mail the surveys if you want them, otherwise I'll dump them. DEMOGRAPHICS As mentioned, there were 55 responses. Depending on the number of people on the list, this represents between 10% and 20% of the list. I would assume that the list is made up mostly of Full Thrust players, with a large proportion of them also owners (if not players) of Dirtside II and Stargrunt 2. The survey seems to bear this out. It also bears out that the majority of list members are primarily SF gamers. Though some of us also enjoy fantasy games, a good deal do not. This will have an effect on the results as they apply to the Blood and Thunder game. RESPONSES The following are the questions that I asked, followed by the number of responses and the percentage of the total. QUESTION #1: Please rank the following in terms of the order you would like to see their appearance. For instance, if you want to see Full Thrust, 3rd Edition first, Bugs Don't Surf second, and Blood and Thunder third, you would say, "#1 Full Thrust, #2 Bugs Don't Surf, #3 Blood and Thunder". The supplements are: Full Thrust, 3rd Edition (FT3) - New version of FT. Includes new ship design system, new weapons, optional vector movement rules, scenarios, campaign rules, and "maybe even a counter sheet for little stuff like vector markers, missiles, debris etc..." Bugs Don't Surf (BDS) - Supplement for Dirtside II and Stargrunt 2. Includes alien rules for SG2 and DS2, and scenarios. Perhaps it might include a campaign system, predesigned vehicles, and a little bit more background stuff. Blood and Thunder (BaT) - A generic fantasy game using the FMA system. The system will allow battles from skirmishes up to army clashes. RESPONSES Full Thrust as first choice: 27 (50%) Full Thrust as second choice: 24 (44%) Full Thrust as third choice: 3 (6%) Bugs Don't Surf as first choice: 27 (50%) Bugs Don't Surf as second choice: 22 (41%) Bugs Don't Surf as third choice: 5 (9%) Blood and Thunder as first choice: 0 (0%) Blood and Thunder as second choice: 6 (11%) Blood and Thunder as third choice: 48 (89%) I found the numbers a little surprising. The Bugs Don't Surf totals are essentially identical to that for Full Thrust 3. I expected the difference to be greater as this is primarily a Full Thrust list (although one person mentioned that he thought there was too much SG2 and DS2 stuff on the list, I've heard from SG2 and DS2 players who dropped the list due to too little support for their games). Not too suprising, Blood and Thunder is the number 3 choice. QUESTION #2: How badly do you want these supplements (please respond with "want it immediately", "want it within 6 months", "want it within a year", "want it this century", "want it whenever Jon gets it done", "don't want it")? Note that this is in no way a measure of Jon's ability or willingness to produce these supplements. It is only a measure of when you would like to see the supplement. It is perfectly okay to answer "want it immediately" to all three, even though this is patently impossible for Jon to accomplish. RESPONSES: Full Thrust III "yesterday": 2 (4%) "immediately": 12 (22%) "within 6 months": 10 (19%) "within a year": 12 (22%) "this century": 5 (9%) "whenever Jon gets it done": 11 (20%) "don't want it": 1 (2%) "no answer": 1 (2%) Bugs Don't Surf "yesterday": 2 (4%) "immediately": 15 (28%) "within 6 months": 14 (26%) "soon after FT3": 1 (2%) "within a year": 10 (19%) "this century": 2 (4%) "whenever Jon gets it done": 5 (9%) "don't want it": 4 (7%) "no answer": 1 (2%) Blood and Thunder "immediately": 2 (4%) "within 6 months": 2 (4%) "within a year": 6 (11%) "this century": 7 (13%) "whenever Jon gets it done": 16 (30%) "don't want it": 20 (37%) "no answer": 1 (2%) The idea behind this question was to find out how badly people wanted a particular supplement. It was NOT designed to try and influence Jon's publishing decisions, it was just to gauge how desperately people wanted a particular supplement. You might say you want one supplement over another, but this question will tell if you are fanatic about it or somewhat ambivalent. Some of the respondents didn't quite take it that way and tended to answer more "logically" than "emotionally" (emotion is what I was after). The other problem with the question was that some of the respondents didn't realize when the century ended. :-) The response indicates that there is more of an immediate demand for BDS than the other two. 60% of respondents want it within the next 6 months versus 45% for FT3 (if you extend the answers to the 1 year mark, the totals are 79% and 67% respectively). This would follow with the feeling I've heard from DS2 players that they have waited a long time for a DS2 supplement. Meanwhile, SG2 players have been saying that a lack of a point system and/or alien rules is what's preventing them from roping in friends who play WH40K. There is far more ambivalence towards BaT. Only 30% want it within a year, with 37% not wanting it at all. The initial cold reception FT3 got on the list appears to have dissolved. This is probably in response to Jon's long posting that gave us a glimpse as to what FT3 will include. QUESTION #3: Regardless of what you said for question #1, are you likely to buy any of these supplements, assuming that they are priced reasonably (please answer "yes, sight unseen", "very likely", "somewhat likely", "somewhat unlikely", "very unlikely", "no, I won't be buying it")? RESPONSES Full Thrust 3 "yes, sight unseen": 37 (69%) "very likely": 8 (15%) "somewhat likely": 4 (7%) "somewhat unlikely": 2 (4%) "very unlikely": 0 (0%) "no, I won't be buying it": 3 (6%) Bugs Don't Surf "yes, sight unseen": 36 (67%) "very likely": 8 (15%) "somewhat likely": 5 (9%) "somewhat unlikely": 2 (4%) "very unlikely": 1 (2%) "no, I won't be buying it": 2 (4%) Blood and Thunder "yes, sight unseen": 5 (9%) "very likely": 9 (17%) "somewhat likely": 18 (33%) "somewhat unlikely": 2 (4%) "very unlikely": 4 (7%) "no, I won't be buying it": 15 (28%) "don't know": 1 (2%) The liklihood of purchasing BDS and FT3 is essentially identical. The inconsistances between the responses to this question and question 2 are interesting. For instance, more people said they didn't want BaT in question 2 than said that they wouldn't buy it in question 3. QUESTION #4: Do you currently own one of the following games (please answer "yes, I own it", "no, but I'm buying it within 6 months", "no, but I'd like to try it some time", "no, but I've been looking for it and can't find it", "no, the subject doesn't interest me", "no, I tried it and didn't like it", "other"--with a short explanation)? RESPONSES Full Thrust "yes, I own it": 49 (91%) "I'm buying it in 6 months": 0 (0%) "I'd like to try it sometime": 1 (2%) "can't find it": 0 (0%) "subject doesn't interest me": 1 (2%) "tried it and didn't like it": 1 (2%) "never tried it": 2 (4%) "no answer, don't have?": 0 (0%) Dirtside II "yes, I own it": 43 (80%) "I'm buying it in 6 months": 2 (4%) "I'd like to try it sometime": 5 (9%) "can't find it": 0 (0%) "subject doesn't interest me": 1 (2%) "tried it and didn't like it": 0 (0%) "no answer, don't have?": 2 (4%) "haven't tried it; don't know if I'll like it": 1 (2%) Stargrunt 2 "yes, I own it": 37 (69%) "I'm buying it in 6 months": 3 (6%) "I'd like to try it sometime": 10 (19%) "can't find it": 0 (0%) "subject doesn't interest me": 1 (2%) "tried it and didn't like it": 0 (0%) "don't have it": 0 (0%) "no answer, don't have?": 2 (4%) "haven't tried it; don't know if I'll like it": 1 (2%) Just a straightforward demographics question. QUESTION #5a: Regardless of your answer to question #4, do you currently play any of the following games (please answer "frequently", "often", "infrequently", "once", "never")? RESPONSES Full Thrust "frequently": 15 (28%) "often": 12 (22%) "infrequently": 16 (30%) "once": 1 (2%) "never": 6 (11%) "not often enough": 1 (2%) "no answer": 3 (6%) Dirtside II "frequently": 2 (4%) "often": 8 (15%) "infrequently": 21 (39%) "once": 1 (2%) "never": 18 (33%) "not often enough": 1 (2%) "no answer": 3 (6%) Stargrunt 2 "frequently": 8 (15%) "often": 3 (6%) "infrequently": 11 (20%) "once": 3 (6%) "never": 26 (48%) "not often enough": 1 (2%) "no answer": 2 (4%) The frequency of play question was asked to see if there was a correlation between people playing the games and the request for a specific supplement. Funny enough, there appears to be a reverse correlation where DS2 and SG2 players want Bugs Don't Surf a bit more strongly than FT players want FT3. Meanwhile, DS2 and SG2 is played less often. This might suggest that they hope BDS will include rules to help introduce more players to the game or make the game easier to play. Or I might be reading too much into this... QUESTION #5b: If you answered "infrequently", "once", or "never" to #5a, why don't you play more often (please answer "didn't like it", "can't find players", "can't afford the rules and/or miniatures", "can't find the rules for sale", "can't find suitable miniatures for sale", "doesn't interest me", "other"--for other, please specify)? RESPONSES Full Thrust "can't find players": 13 "can't afford it": 1 "can't find rules": 1 "can't find minis": 1 "doesn't interest me": 2 "not enough time": 8 "other players were dorks/rules rapists": 1 "minis aren't painted yet": 1 "playing area needs work due to flooding": 1 Dirtside II "didn't like it": 2 "can't find players": 19 "can't afford it": 1 "don't have it": 1 "doesn't interest me": 1 "I don't have my minis with me": 1 "not enough time": 12 "haven't got around to it yet": 1 "bought it just to see FMA system": 1 "minis aren't painted yet": 1 "playing area needs work due to flooding": 1 "haven't found anyone to run an intro game yet": 1 Stargrunt 2 "didn't like it": 1 "can't find players": 18 "can't afford it": 3 "can't find minis": 1 "doesn't interest me": 2 "not enough time": 11 "don't have it": 2 "playing other--GW--games right now": 1 "want to try it first": 1 "haven't found anyone to run an intro game yet": 1 Not everyone answered this question, so I only list the number of responses and not a percentage. What's obvious is that if Jon can find a way to bring in tons of players and give everyone unlimited time in their lives to play his games, he'll make millions (that will give him plenty of time to work on that world peace thing). Though sometimes entertaining, there was nothing new in this response. CONCLUSION So, there you have the supplement survey responses. The one question missing from the survey is whether people intend to buy the fleet book and whether the purchase of the fleet book would affect purchasing FT3. This was implied in the survey, and probably explains the lower immediacy among list members towards purchasing FT3. However, I also received a couple of responses that suggest that this wasn't made obvious to everyone. Some people wrote in the fleet book as a supplement they wanted, apparently without realizing that the survey assumed the fleet book was a _fait accompli_. If there's one overall conclusion from this survey, it is that no matter which supplement follows the fleet book Jon would be hard pressed to make a bad choice. There is a lot of demand for both FT3 and BDS. I would assume that FT has sold much greater than DS2 and/or SG2. That would suggest that FT3 will sell better than BDS. There's also the problem Jon mentioned about FT needing a re-release. The survey suggests that releasing FT3 would be prudent. On the other hand, it looks as though BDS is more greatly anticipated. This means that it might hit the break even point sooner than FT3. Either way, Jon's fans appear to be loyal with a good number of them buying anything he produces sight unseen. I'd like to thank everyone for their responses. Hopefully this will prove useful not only for further discussions on the list but for Jon in the marketing of his games. QUOTES Here are some choice quotations from the surveys to finish this post. I've left the name of the respondent off the quote to maintain anonymity. "By now, you've probably noticed a pattern here: I like _starship_ games, and am not terribly keen on classic ground wargames, even SF ones (at least, not miniatures; I have a few boardgames of that type, but I don't fancy the time and effort required to get into land miniatures). I do _not_ like fantasy, and would prefer that Jon stayed right away from it, but I realise that this is unlikely for good commercial reasons -- I just hope that his other stuff, especially FT, will not get buried under waves of fantasy fanatics. I find the mailing list rather too much concerned with SG2 and DS2 for my taste, but the thought of a deluge of fantasy stuff there makes me shudder; I would have to unsubscribe if that happens, which I don't want to do." "Blood and Thunder is unranked (dont waste time on fantasy there are already plenty out there)" " Dirtside II "other" I usually play Epic 40K now, but this is rare, too. This is more "can't find players". The basic rules for E40K are simpler than DSII (in my opinion), and seem faster playing so I could use larger armies. Simpler rules are important because my wife is my usual not-too-enthusiastic opponent." " As far as liking FT is concerned, I did enjoy playing it but found it overly simple compared to SFB. Of course I find SFB to be overly complex (or at least overly slow) so something in between would be nice. Perhaps Interceptor is worth a second look. The reason I mention that is that I'm not sure I'll be too interested in FT3, because the core of the system will remain the same. As has been mentioned recently in the ECM "dice" thread, there are problems that stem from the fact that the original system uses six-sided dice, which means all your values tend to have to fit in a 1-6 range. This makes subtlety difficult. On the other hand maybe I should dig up a copy of the Champions rules and see how they handled that problem." " #1 Full Thrust -- because Jon has been working hard on it for quite a while now, and I'd hate to see all that effort pushed aside for future consideration while he works on something else. "#2 Bugs Don't Surf -- because it's easier to work on a game system that exists than to design a new one, and the new supplements would be available sooner! "#3 Blood and Thunder -- actually, I want this right now! But given the restrictions placed on a one-man shop, along with the above reasons for doing the two supplements earlier, I'm willing to wait for it." " Full Thrust No, I tried it and didn't like it [I played it with a bunch of dorks, with the right people I'll try it again..] Dirtside II No but I'd like to try it. Stargrunt 2 Yes I own it, and I think it is one of the best minature based games I've played!... Full Thrust I played a few times, and the guys I played against were rules rapists. Dirtside II Love to try, but nobody around here has their act together to run a demo for me. Stargrunt 2 minatures are hard to find, but I'm doing my best with mail order" "My priority: #1 Fleet book with the rules from the playtest version of FTIII #2 Bugs Don't Surf with points system and transition from SG to DS #3 Full Thrust III #4 Blood and Thunder" "I want the best product he can put out, even if it takes a year. - "Ve vant no miztakes, Tuffley or ve vill send you to the Kravak frront!" I WILL buy FT3 for sure, even if it's been Misarendoed!" " Stargrunt 2 have a hard time getting figs (we've got a large collection of 40K figs, but they dont seem... right.) lack of interest in skirmishing..no scenarios or point system" "Dirtside II-other-do not like the chit drawing system" "Jon (and his playtesters) will have to think a LOT to produce a good fantasy game, especially if it is supposed to be able to handle anything from a skirmish to the battle of Pelennor... Also, there are some good competitors for it already; the market that can be pryed loose from GW isn't that big." "...my basement needs more work since last year's Midwestern floods..."