Hello All: Well, I'm bummed. Last night I had proven my own tactical
incpmpetence regarding FT. It is FT night at my local game store, and since it
had been a month since I played a game I decided to go. I got there at 7PM and
stayed till about 10:30PM, and in that time frame, I found out just how bad I
am at this game. First of all we started playing late. I got there at seven
because we didn't start until 8:30. We had to wait for another player to show
up and come up with a 4000 point fleet. In the meantime, we were entertained
by a group of Star War CCG players who were watching a copy of "The Star Wars
Holiday Special." (Don't ask me where they dug up that
leaker.) After we had fun MST3K-ing the Special (An Imperial Officer is
mesmerized by Jefferson Starship, and a Grand Moff is outsmarted by Art
Carney--sheesh.), we started.
They had changed the house rules since the last time I played: *First, they
changed the fleet points. It was originally 2000.
Now it's double that. *Secondly, they don't allow fighters. They didn't tell
me this until AFTER I launched my fighters. They claimed that it's not because
they think they're unbalenced. It's because they think they take up too
much weapon space. (One ship had 12 A batteries!) They made an exception in my
case, because I wasn't around when they made up the new rules. Third: We have
to wait 3 turns before any fire can take place. Finnaly: They came up with a
new maneuver: the slipside. Operates the same as a 2, 3, or 4 point turn,
however the facing is just a little different in the end (i.e. the same
direction as ship started).
I didn't have time to build a fleet, so I used stock ship designs. I had: 1
Fleet Carrier (equiped with attack and torpedo fighters)
1 Battleship
1 Battlecrusier (which got whiped out by Mr.12 Batteries) 2 Heavy Cruiers 2
Torpedo Destoyers
In the end both my destroyers got dusted and my CA and BC died an undignified
death. I had to leave early in order to get to bed at a reasonable hour. I
only killed a couple of dinky ships that were swarming me. Other than that, I
barely scored a point of damage. Maybe
the problem isn't with me, but the people I game with. These people take 4000
points and make monster ships that can total my largest ship (usually a SDN)
in a single beam salvo. (Don't ask me what our Kra'Vak player fields! 10 "3"
railguns and 15 scatterpacks!)
Answers for questions people are bound to ask me: Q: Why do you bother
playing? A: Well because it's fun. I just wish I can win sometimes.
Q: Why don't you find another play-group?
A: This FT group is the only one in the bloody state! The only thing people do
here in Wisconisn is drink beer, eat bratwurst and potato salad, and talk
about "da Packers...ainna hey?" (This, from a native.) There's not a lot of
gamers around here. I don't want to wait until
GEN-CON to play a decent game of FT. Besides, I operate on the
hopelessly optimistic assumption that I MIGHT one day come up with the tactics
to destroy any enemy fleet. Q: Why don't you start your own?
A: I tried. The trouble is that there is no real fan-base for
FT in this state. (All the other space gamers are into SFB.) The few times I
attempted to start a group I wind up sitting in the gaming room while the 12
year old play with their Magic cards and pay no attention to
me. Yes, I posted eye-catching annoucements. No one pays attention to
them either.
Q: Why are you b----ing about this?
A: Because it p---es me off.
Later,
> bolton.ac.uk!owner-ftgzg-l wrote:
> since it had been a month since I played a game I decided to go. I
[MUNCH]
> In the end both my destroyers got dusted and my CA and BC died
Maybe
> the problem isn't with me, but the people I game with. These people
I don't think you should feel so bad. Stock ships against those
munchkin monsters!? (TWELVE A-bats? Dear God!) Plus the shock of the
rule change, plus everything else; man, the Universe was stacked against you.
I wonder if in the supership range, point scales should become exponential.
That'll keep things away from the MASS 2000 Death Stars that destroy entire
solar systems in one gigantic blow. I know any system is open to abuse, but
I've heard too many stories about the
mega-death dealing dreadnaught. (As it stands now, unless you've got a
BIG table, tin cans will get slaughtered vs. line ships.)
Just some random babble.
J.
Then again there's always the "take your 30 scouts to FTL at the same time
while interpenetrating his fleet tactic..." leave 2 CA missile barges on the
table edge with 8 standard missiles each to finish off
whatever unlucky bastards are left....;-) doncha HATE munchkins....
> Hello All:
(Lots of snips)
> Q: Why don't you find another play-group?
<snips>
> Q: Why don't you start your own?
<snips>
> Q: Why are you b----ing about this?
Mark,
Wanna road-trip to Madison? I'm running a multi-player FT game at the
Last
Square tonight (7-10 p.m.). Also, there's a few of us here starting up
fleets to run at Pegasus Games. What's your store in Milwaukee? Napoleons?
In Madison, GZG games seem to be gaining a following. We'll probably be
doing some semi-regular-ish stuff on Saturdays at Pegasus (we have two
great game stores in town - Pegaus games (two locations) and The Last
Square (mostly historicals)). PLUS, we have some great gamers here in town.
LOTS of fun, always something uproarious happens. And willing to try
anything (well, game-wise, anyway). I can guarantee you'll have fun.
Check
out http://recording.music.wisc.edu/Minis/games.html for more info on
the group.
We have two great game stores in town - Pegaus games (two locations) and
The Last Square (mostly historicals).
Gimme a call!
John Kovalic
PS. GO PACK!
Sorry. It was just a great weekend. Didn't get ONE ship painted on
Sunday! :-)
********************************************************
"This must be Thursday. I never COULD get the hang of Thursdays"
- Arthur Dent
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* "Wild Life": a Web comic --
*
> On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Jerry Han wrote:
> I wonder if in the supership range, point scales should become
The sick thing is, they actually like coming up with the SUPER SUPER
dreadnaughts and pitting them against one another. What's a guy like me who
actually want's a fair, balanced fleet scenarios (i.e. take the starbase,
convoy duty, etc.) supposed to do?
Well...to quote Jesse "The Body" Ventura: "It's Payback Time!" ;-)
Powell Class Gunship: Mass: 100 DP: 50 Points Cost: 1048 Thrust Factor: 4
Armor 2 (This group decided that human tech ships can mount armor.) 16 A
Batteries (3 arc) 2 Submunition Packs
Sheridan Class Superdreadnaught: Mass: 90 DP: 45 Points Cost: 872 Thrust
Factor: 4 Armor 2 1 Wave Gun 2 Pluse Tropedos 2 AA Megabatteries 4 A Batteries
(3 Arc) 1 Extra Fire Con
Morgan Class Super Heavy Cruiser (Varient A): Mass 36 Points Cost: 262 Thrust
Factor: 4 Armor 2 2 Pluse Torps. 2 A Batteries
Morgan Class Super CA (Varient B): Replace the Pluse Torps with a Wave Gun.
That should balence things out.
Later,
> On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Jerry Han wrote:
> Well...to quote Jesse "The Body" Ventura: "It's Payback Time!" ;-)
It looks like all these ships would be REAL vulnerable to fighters, no wonder
they decided no to play with them.
> Mark A. Siefert wrote:
> Now it's double that.
4000 points for one short game!?
> *Secondly, they don't allow fighters. They didn't tell me this
> they think they're unbalenced. It's because they think they take up
> rules.
Just to get ship to close faster before firing? Kinda hurst the
effectiveness of long-range weapons(missiles, AA-bats, etc.).
> Finnaly: They came up with a new maneuver: the slipside.
Just when you got the basic movement mastered!
> I didn't have time to build a fleet, so I used stock ship
Maybe
> the problem isn't with me, but the people I game with. These people
> player fields! 10 "3" railguns and 15 scatterpacks!)
If your not in a campaign, this usually seems to happen. Many players will
try to build the largest ships possible - turns a fleet battle into a
slugfest of heavies. Of course it helps to know your opposition. If they tend
to build monsters, you need to plan your ship designs and strategy for it.
Some friends I played FT with built some very large ships(all capitals), and I
countered them with cruisers armed with long range weapons that destroyed one
and left one crippled before their weapons were in range.
Here's something else fun to try: Mount reflex fields and sub-packs on
escorts and drive them right up to your opponents heavies with the field on.
When they unload the 12 A-batts or so, they might get quite a surprise.
After they learn about this, they will tend to target something else first
next turn. On your next turn write the order to shut-off the reflex
field
on the ship closest to the enemy and unload all your sub-packs at the
same target. Try not to do this with all the escorts, since the enemy will
think they all have their fields down and are planning to unload their
sub-packs
as well. When they fire on another escort with the field up, surprise again!
This will help warm up the opposition before your own reserve ships come in
range, hopefully with the enemy a little weaker.
:
> A: This FT group is the only one in the bloody state! The only
Don't forget the cheese!;)
> Q: Why don't you start your own?
> while the 12 year old play with their Magic cards and pay no attention
> them either.
Why does this seem so familiar? Ah well, sometimes this happens, but at least
at the Cons, FT is very popular!
Hmm, I'm getting the replies to this message before seeing the original, but
regarding "and in that time frame, I found out just how bad I am at this
game":
This weekend I faced a space station across a moving asteroid field. My two
SuperDread's were just getting into range, one of them had fired at the
station and received back as good as it gave, just as the other (as yet
undamaged) smashed into an asteroid. Needless to say, I didn't win that
scenario.
If you think you're pretty good at navigation, try moving asteroids on the
field.
BTW, the way I did this was to create a ruler on a 10" long piece of paper
with arrows drawn every inch. This created the asteroid "band." Then at the
start of play I randomly sprinkled asteroids along the band. Then, at the
start of each turn, we moved the asteroids 6" toward one table edge. Ones that
fell off
the edge were replaced at the other edge with a roll of a ten-sider,
then they finished their move (i.e., if they moved two inches and fell off,
then they moved 4 inches coming on the other side.) Asteroids were moved after
orders were written but before ships moved, then missiles and fighters.
Pretty exciting, for me anyway - my opponent (newbie) didn't have to
worry about the navigation challenge since he was defending on the other side
of the band. Actually, it wasn't a bad way to balance the fact that I was more
experienced at maneuver (and no, Mark K., we won't be mentioning the other
time that I put a ship into an asteroid in a pbem).
Oh, and asteroids were made with a cut up sponge, painted black,
dry-brushed
grey, and mounted on plasticard with wire and hot glue. Finally, a use for the
ole hot glue gun!
Hmmm, might have to post the scenario as soon as I get my new ISP set up
right. United States of North America versus the Arabian League with secret
support from the Russian Republic.
Later, Nick Caldwell
Formerly cncald@aol.com (That's America OFF-Line)
Now of clcaldwell@primary.net
______________________________ Reply Separator
> Well, I'm bummed. Last night I had proven my own tactical
Well, gee, Mark, whaddya been doin' for the past month or two? B5W testing??
;-)
> They had changed the house rules since the last time I played:
See above
> *First, they changed the fleet points. It was originally 2000.
> Now it's double that.
Okay, either big ships or large fleets. I'd personally want to play large
fleets in this situation, but I'm guessing they went large-@$$ ships,
eh?
> *Secondly, they don't allow fighters. They didn't tell me this
> they think they're unbalenced. It's because they think they take up
> rules.
Sounds *lame* to me. If they think fighters take up too much weapon space,
then it would *seem* to me that they consider fighters a *detriment* and would
encourage people not to use them because they are lacking in ability. I think
maybe they're afraid of them (hell, *I* am!) and feel they are
unbalancing. Fighters take up the space of 1 C-battery, period. 3
fighters
take up the space of an A-battery.
Plus, if they don't have to worry about fighters, then they can drop all those
extra *DAFs and put more Batteries in...I'd argue this is a lame excuse of a
rule.
Feh. Fighters are just a pain-in-the-ass to hit with *DAF weapons, which
is why I think they're unbalancing (if the *DAFs hit on a 5 or 6, or a
4-6
against missiles, I'd feel a *lot* happier and feel more balanced with
things).
Double feh; more I think about the above excuse, the lamer it seems. I'll give
them a ship that has 12 A batteries and take a carrier carrying an equivalent
mass of [fast] fighters...who'll win?? ;-)
> Third: We have to wait 3 turns before any fire can take place.
Why??? What justification is there for this???
> Finnaly: They came up with a new maneuver: the slipside.
Not all that new. I and one or two others proposed this as an optional
maneuver last year. I allowed it to be used in my last B5 PBeM scenario
(the 'Call To Arms' one, if you remember ;-) a couple people actually
did use it).
> In the end both my destroyers got dusted and my CA and BC died
Ahhhh, blow off sleep. ;-)
> I only killed a couple of dinky ships that were
Maybe
> the problem isn't with me, but the people I game with. These people
> player fields! 10 "3" railguns and 15 scatterpacks!)
Uh-huh....large-@$$ ships...
> Answers for questions people are bound to ask me:
Looks like either you have to change their rules, or play their rules.
> Q: Why don't you find another play-group?
Then instead of just accepting their rules (no fighters, 4000 pt fleets with
the biggest ships one can possibly field, etc), play a genre-based
enviroment. You're making up your own B5 rules; use em! Or use Tom's, or mine,
or someone else's. Go Star Trek. Battlestar Galactica.
Or impose limitations on the size of ships and *numbers* of ships of that size
(max mass for a ship is 150, no more than 2 of that size, no more than 4 ships
between mass 80-100, etc).
OR impose a rule that ships must correspond to the size of the minis being
used. If you have a big mini, that can be a big ship. Minis of 2-3
inches
are cruiser-sized and can only be cruisers. Minis smaller can be DDs and
less. There's a group down in Virginia that I believe either already does
this, or is thinking about putting together a 'gathering' using this rule
limitation.
> Q: Why don't you start your own?
> while the 12 year old play with their Magic cards and pay no attention
> them either.
There is that problem, too. I experience it. Alas.
> Q: Why are you b----ing about this?
Heh.
See the suggestions above.
Another thing, by 'playing in their rules', look for things they haven't
outlawed yet (cloaking devices, waveguns, reflex fields, missiles,
sub-packs,
etc) and max them out. Build on your groups weaknesses. All it becomes then is
an arms race, sure. But maybe you'll demonstrate to them how silly they are
being (well...then again, maybe not; they'll probably just outlaw anything you
come up with the kill their ships that they aren't prepared for).
Mk
> Here's something else fun to try: Mount reflex fields and sub-packs on
I LIKE it! :-) Heheheheh...
ALternatively, substitute a pulse torp for the sub-packs. Then sit
behind the big mothers and plink away randomly...
Mk
> Mark A. Siefert wrote:
> Finnaly: They came up with a new maneuver: the slipside.
Well, while FT maneuvering isn't SUPER realistic, surely sideslips can only
occur in atmospheric conditions! This seems quite arbitrary, more for SFB than
FT.
In a message dated 97-01-29 09:36:40 EST, you write:
Well, If you can't unjoin, beat 'em. Let's all see if we can save Mark from
the attack of the killer CheeseHeads.
> They had changed the house rules since the last time I played:
> Now it's double that.
4000 is too large lobby to get this changed. Use the ploy that some people
have real lives to get back to and cannot play unitl dawn. Lower points (even
down to 3000) will drastically cut back on the superships.
> *Secondly, they don't allow fighters. They didn't tell me this
Opportunity knocks. If you like fighters and they think they are too big for
their value, ask to use them at a lower mass/bay since this fits with
their squirrelly rule explanation. If you can get them down to 5 mass per bay,
you could cram an extra squadron or two in
> Third: We have to wait 3 turns before any fire can take place.
Ah. You might go with high speed fleets and use this time to try maneuvering
in behind them. Come onto the table literally scorching and try to get out of
the arc of their super guns.
> Finnaly: They came up with a new maneuver: the slipside.
> little different in the end (i.e. the same direction as ship
Just use it!
> I didn't have time to build a fleet, so I used stock ship
Stock ships. Ah!
> In the end both my destroyers got dusted and my CA and BC died
Maybe
> the problem isn't with me, but the people I game with. These people
I hope that you have some house rules for Kra'Vak weaponry otherwise you'll
have to get used to getting creamed.
Here are some ideas.
The biggest liability of superships is that they turn like barges. Go with
fast ships and try to stay out of arc. I suspect based on the description of
these guys that those 12 A-batts are all three arc weapons, so this will
probably be a problem.
Missiles may be an option. If they do not use fighters, then they may not have
a lot of point defense. Add that to the fact that large ships are slower and
therefore easier to predict and you may be able to land a big missile salvo on
his head and do some hurt.
Here is a proven big ship killer from our games. Build a largish capital ship
with high thrust (6 is good) and pack on level three screens, about 6
needle beams, and as many c-batts as will fill the remaining space. At
Mass
72 for instance that's 6 needles, 9 c-batts, and screens 3. With thrust
6 this ship comes to 799 points, so for 4000 points you get 5 of these These
babies scream at enourmous rates of speed, close the range and blast away at
engines and fire control. The level three screens will stop enough incoming
beam fire to allow you to close and the mass of C-batts provides good
anti-missile defense. If your opponent only has one or two superships
he's extremely susceptible to this. With the engines completely destroyed and
no escorting ships, there is not a thing he can do to keep you from parking in
his rear arc and slowly blasting him to bits with those sorry little
C-batts.
I can just see the look of frustration as he realizes that you have completely
neutralized his pride and joy without doing a single point of damage. Be sure
to take out the FTL drive in the second wave of needle
attacks to prevent him from escaping. Against non-superships, the
needle ships should go for firecon or thrust. Against the superships, I'd go
for thrust on the first pass then use your maneuverablity to get behind them
before continuing by taking out the screen generators, allowing your
C-batts
to work their magic. If needed, you may add insult to injury by boarding the
monster once you've eliminated a sizable portion of the crew....
I had an opponent do this to me. His ship was mass 90 or so, mounted screens
3, 12 needles, and a bunch of C-batts. My NSL CA lost both firecon in
the firast turn of engagement. My opponent slightlt miscalculated his approach
speed and my NSL SDN (the really big one) maneuvered like no other Thrust 2
ship has ever maneuvered, but I still lost 2 firecons from the SDN as well as
my escorting CE. The Needle Guys ally swept in and pummelled one of my other
ships while my ally poured on the thrust and tried to get away from "The
Needle". In the end we FTL'd the hell out of there. We usually play with
hidden designs, etc and use the sensor rules. I missed two sensor rolls on
"The Needle" and by the time I new what the damn thing was it was right on top
of me. I think that the smaller design I listed is even more optimized than
his, since you will have a whole slew of needles.....
Anybody else have any suggestions for Admiral Seifert?
Give 'Em Hell
Brian
> At 02:03 PM 1/29/97 -0500, you wrote:
<<snippage>>
> I LIKE it! :-) Heheheheh...
Nope. Won't work on an escort. Pulse Torps cost 5, Reflex Field costs 6, total
of 11 which is too much for an escort. Here are two options:
Class Name: Little Ship of Horrors Point Cost: 113 Ship Class: Escort
(Military)
Mass: 14/7
Thrust: 8 FTL Drive Equipped
Weapons Other Weapons: 1 Submunition Pack
Fire Control: 1 Fire Control System
Defensive Systems 1 Damage Control Party 1 Reflex Field
Damage Points per Threshold Level
3 / 4
Class Name: Little Ship of Horrors 2 Point Cost: 139 Ship Class: Escort
(Military)
Mass: 18/9
Thrust: 8 FTL Drive Equipped
Weapons Other Weapons: 3 Submunition Packs
Fire Control: 1 Fire Control System
Defensive Systems 1 Damage Control Party 1 Reflex Field
Damage Points per Threshold Level
4 / 5
You could have 35 of the first one, or 28 of the second one. Hope the
munchkins bought LOTS of firecons. If you can, Mark, try wangling your way
into making the victory points equal to the number of ship points left at
the end of the game. The first time a 12 A-beam munchkin bounces back
the average 24 damage points at close range, you will cease to be a primary
target. And once those sub-packs are expended, you're even LESS of a
threat ("Let's see, he can't do any more damage to me unless I fire at him,
hmmm...."). Then take as much time as you can get away with writing your
orders, and hope your ships outlast the clock. :-) You could have the
ships swarm in on your opponent and then play a fancy shell game with him. Can
he remember which of your ships expended their sub packs on the first pass? I
like it! I bet they'll introduce a house rule to kill the use of reflex
shields for their next game, though (this seems to be their way of dealing
with a tactic they can't beat).
One question, do you round the halved beam damage (on a roll of a 5) up or
down?
> Here's something else fun to try: Mount reflex fields and sub-packs
Aww, damn, that's r--....wait!!! Take out the FTL drives.... ;-)
Mk
> bolton.ac.uk!owner-ftgzg-l wrote:
> > reasonable hour. I only killed a couple of dinky ships that were
Maybe
> > the problem isn't with me, but the people I game with. These people
It's not your tactics that are wrong, it's the strategy. It's apparent
that your opponents have decided that mega-ships are the order of the
day and have tried to keep it that way. Since they have banned fighters two
solutions are: micro torpedo boat fleet or massive missile fleet. It sounds as
if their designs are built to battle few numbers of mega ships,
throwing a fleet of 100-150 micro torpedoe boats of having a couple of
dozen missiles slam into a mega hulk can really turn people off mega ships.
Most people don't both putting lots of extra fire controls in
their superships, leaving them vulnerable to swarms of mini-ships since
a standard capital ship only has three fire controls. Secondly, if they have
banned fignters, no one will have taken ADAF'S OR PDAF'S leaving
them bare of anti-missile defense. By using weapons that avoid shields
you can bypass one of the advantages of superships, beings able to take large
amounts of damage at low levels until a threshold check is needed,
now oyu can damage them at a rapid pace. If you average the damage from
a missile (7 points) few ships will be able to stand more than 4 or five
before taking major threshold checks, and with that many systems, it won't be
pretty. I suspect that that game after you try this with missiles, missles
will mysteriosly be banned.
--Binhan
> At 04:13 PM 1/29/97 -0500, you wrote:
I don't think even munchkins would miss the fact that there were no FTL
drives. If Mark can convince them to let him be the planetary defence fleet,
you might have something. In fact, he'd have a little room left over for a
submunition pack or two...
> On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Binhan Lin wrote:
> It's not your tactics that are wrong, it's the strategy. It's
> dozen missiles slam into a mega hulk can really turn people off mega
> have banned fignters, no one will have taken ADAF'S OR PDAF'S leaving
As a follow up to my own message, the reason I know is is personal
experience. i went through the mega-ship stage until my kindly friends
who love to push the envelope in all directions pointed out the error of
my ways by 1) using micro-carriers -- my mega ship lasted three and one
half turns before being vaporized by 20 squadrons of fighters, one turn
was spent in flying towards my ship... 2) massed mini-torpedo boats, I
killed 10 before losing all fire controls in the second threshold check.
and 3) 60+ missiles fired from halfway across the board witht he
cruisers just sitting there enjoying the fireworks. I dodged half since we
have
missiles move before the ships move their pre-written orders but getting
hit by 12 still was ugly ( didn't help that a multitudes of sixes were
rolled). I found that designing a supership to deal with these type of
tactics totally elimiated any capability against other super-ships
making the design effectively useless. (compromises gave the worst of both
worlds, not enough firepower to affect superships and not enough fire
control to deal with mini-ships/fighters/missiles)
--Binhan
> At 09:37 AM 1/30/97 -0800, Alan wrote:
> May I make a suggestion? Firstly, the group you're playing with seems a
Can't put 100 A batteries on a 4000 point ship if you have to have an FTL
drive. You're 300 points too high. You can do this, though:
Class Name: Kickbutt Point Cost: 3736 Ship Class: Supership (Military)
Mass: 500/250
Thrust: 1 FTL Drive Equipped
Weapons Beams: 72 A Beam batteries with 3 firing arcs (Fwd, Port, Stbd)
Fire Control: 11 Fire Control Systems
Defensive Systems 10 Screen Generator Levels 11 Damage Control Parties
Other Systems 1 Superior Sensor 1 Indvidual ECM Module
Damage Points per Threshold Level
20 / 20 / 21 / 21 / 21 / 21 / 21 / 21 / 21 / 21 / 21 / 21
It's pretty slow, but then you're not going anywhere. If you want to save some
points for another couple of ships or something, put in 43 megabatteries. The
price drops to 3445. Either way, make sure you're using the damage control
parties rules.
I disagree with the AMT Star Destroyer model, though. Best model is a single
Micromachines Shuttlecraft (it lulls them into a false sense of security;
besides some of us have tonnes of these things lying around). A Borg cube
would work, but it gives too much away.
> bolton.ac.uk!owner-ftgzg-l wrote:
> like me who actually want's a fair, balanced fleet scenarios (i.e.
take
> the starbase, convoy duty, etc.) supposed to do?
SIXTEEN A-bats!? (Drool, drool babble, babble.)
> Sheridan Class Superdreadnaught:
Oh my.
> Morgan Class Super Heavy Cruiser (Varient A):
Oh my indeed. It better.
SIXTEEN. 96 points max damage against unshielded targets. Ahhh.
I have the distinct image I'm in the Star Wars Universe or something.
(8 km long starships... no problem!) (8-)
J.>
> Hello All:
> Now it's double that.
<snip>
> In the end both my destroyers got dusted and my CA and BC died
Ugly game! Many good suggestions have already been made, so I will not
repeat them. Maybe you could suggest a mini-campaign. 16 systems. 16,000
total points per side. Fleets are designed before the start of the campaign.
Rules are set BEFORE fleets are designed. All ships must have
FTL drives or be brought in by tug/tenders (which count toward the point
total). Each side, secretly, will distribute it's fleet to the 16 systems
before the start of the campaign. 16 sealed envelopes work well to avoid
"favorable mistakes". Ships will NOT be able to be re-distributed during
the campaign. Uncontested systems go to the occupier. Contested systems will
be decided by battle. Side with the most systems at the end wins. To build
monster ships, one side will have to forfeit 1 or more systems.
> Mark Kochte wrote:
Battle Riders and a Tender would work well.
> Mark Kochte wrote:
Talk them into letting you use alien tech "Since you guys beat me so badly
last time" and then build an escort with the Reflex field and a Lev 3 Railgun.
Longer range than a Pulse Torp, and arguably better (or at least, more
consistant) damage.
Take care,
> On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Donald A. Chipman III wrote:
> >Mark Kochte wrote:
First of all, they don't allow non-FTL ships.
> Talk them into letting you use alien tech "Since you guys beat me so
Can't do that either. There's a funny story behind this. In a flyer for the
group the clearly state that there would be "no race mixing." At the time, I
wondered if this was a FT playgroup or a cell of the KKK.
Later,
Hello All:
> Well, I'm bummed. Last night I had proven my own tactical
Nope.
> Maybe
Yep.
> Answers for questions people are bound to ask me:
May I make a suggestion? Firstly, the group you're playing with seems a
little... odd. OK, if those are the rules....
1) Buy an AMT model of a Star Wars Imperial Star Destroyer. 2) Make it a
Supership. A 4,000 pt ship. At least 100 A Batteries as the secondary
armament. 3) After showing that you can be "cheesier than thou", lead them
back to the paths of Righteousness.
> BJCantwell@aol.com wrote:
I accidentally discovered the "System Defence Boat From Hell" while working on
the Star Trek TOS ship designs. The Romulan Bird of Prey:
Mass 12: 1 Wave Gun: 1 Cloak: Speed 2: Cost 102.
> Talk them into letting you use alien tech "Since you guys beat me so
BZZZZZT!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there's "no race mixing", then human ships can't have armor, can they??
(don't have my rulesbook with me, but that's what I seem to recall it saying)
Mk
On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, I know as a lemming I shouldn't be forming my own
> opinions, but such is life wrote:
Ahhhh....they are very selective as to what they consider "alien" technology.
The general rule is that you can mount either beam weapons or railguns, but
never the twain shall meet.
Mark,
Bring your 4,000 point sides over here to Madison some day, and run a demo!
Seem to be lots of new FT converts in this neck of the woods!
> Mark Kochte wrote:
I think MT (not in my hand at the moment) states that Kra-Vak ships
automatically get an armor rating based on ship category and is not an
additional cost while any other races must pay extra for an armor
level-1 or
level-2. IMHO I think armor should be available to all races(not
considered
a Kra-Vak only technology) since this would represent the most basic
form of hull protection.
Giving armor levels automatically to the Kra-Vak represents their
advanced armor technology and experience using it since the humans and other
races have pursued other technologies. I think the book states this as well.
> BZZZZZT!!!!!!!!!!!!
> weapons or railguns, but never the twain shall meet.
Fine. Reflex Field ain't a beam weapon. ;-)
(sorry, Mark, but this situation is sounding more and more bogus to me
:-/ )
Mk
I know as a lemming I shouldn't be forming my own opinions, but such is
> life wrote:
> (sorry, Mark, but this situation is sounding more and more bogus to
It's not that we don't believe you, Mark; it's that I (at least) am having a
hard time believing this group!
Better luck with the new group. Worse comes to worse, take up John on his
Madison offer. ;-)
Mk
From: cthulhu @ csd.uwm.edu
> They had changed the house rules since the last time I played:
You could just take two of your 2000pt fleets.
> *Secondly, they don't allow fighters. They didn't tell me this
If they think fighters are ineffective, they don't /have/ to use them,
but that's no reason to ban them.
> Third: We have to wait 3 turns before any fire can take place.
Not a big problem, just use the time to get into position.
> Finnaly: They came up with a new maneuver: the slipside.
Sideslips don't change much.
> These people take
The problem with really big ships is that they don't have enough
fire-cons
to deal with a ship swarm. I don't have my book handy, but try this design:
Mass 6 escort hull Thrust 8
1 Arc A-Bat (fwd facing)
FTL
I don't remember enough to cost this, but you should be able to buy quite a
few of them for 4000 pts.
The sheer number of ships might give them problems, also you might be able to
get behind them in the first few turns.
Wonder what they'll ban to stop this?
> Q: Why are you b----ing about this?
It sounds like the sort of behaviour that would piss off most people.
> The problem with really big ships is that they don't have enough
Oh, that's easy! ;-) Disallow A-batts on Escort-sized ships.
Mk
My response to behavior like this is to do what the book says about players
who ram too much! Don't play with them! A game is a social contract, by not
stating the changes in the beginning the referee is in effect saying that the
published rules stand. If they can't fulfill a basic social contract, why
bother playing with them? Phil P.
We've played some up here in Appleton area. Problem is everybody's into
Warhammer Fantasy now and us married guys with kids can't get a weekend to do
anything. Full Thrust is one of the in-house favorites though.
Know anyone around Appleton who has a Friday nite free for gaming?
> On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Marshall Grover wrote:
Yep -- change all your fighters to torpedo fighters, and you'll have a
fighting chance.
> On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, John Kovalic wrote:
> Well, while FT maneuvering isn't SUPER realistic, surely sideslips can
Not at all. Let your port manouvering thrusters burn for some time, then
let your starboard manouvering thrusters burn for the same length of time. You
end up with the same vector as you started, but somewhat to the
left of where you wouldv'e been - a sideslip. In FT, simply allow the
mid-move turn to be in the opposite direction of the initial turn. I've
played with that for longer than I've been subscribed here... and no, it
isn't very important.
Regards,
> Rick Rutherford wrote:
> > It looks like all these ships would be REAL vulnerable to fighters,
The way our group plays, if our interpretation of the rules is correct, is
each fighter has a C btty, we play without endurance restrictions though. I
thought of facing 16 fighters from the bad guy's omega class
is enough to make me design a dedicated anti-fighter ship. (learned the
hard way death stars blow up real easy <G>).