Starship Troopers Government

Read Heinlein's Expanded Universe there is a section in this book where
Heinlein talks about the Government in SST. The vast majority of the voters in
SST never held a weapon during their term.

It always amuses me how many peg Heinlein as a fascist because he wrote a
*science fiction* novel about a hypothetical future government. That's an
absurd leap to make. I suppose we're suppose to make every future background
disgustingly bland, politically correct, and exactly following a certain
formula lest we be branded similarly. Jeez. Jon writes a future where Humanity
is in constant war, what the heck does that make him? And god only knows what
kind of degenerate freaks the warhammer 40k inventors were.

> It always amuses me how many peg Heinlein as a fascist because he wrote

Heh!  ;-)

And god only knows what kind of
> degenerate freaks the warhammer 40k inventors were.

Trust me, you REALLY don't wanna hear the answer to this question.....
;-)
(It would probably be libellous on a open list, anyway.....)

> And god only knows what kind of

Um... British?

<ducks and runs for cover :-)>

vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85
---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.

> In message <38D18218.2728F099@cris.com> Los writes:

It's not an absurd leap. Starship Troopers is an extended polemic, a novel
whose events are structured to justify the political opinions espoused by the
characters, which have been reeled off as lectures, as exposition fed directly
to to the reader and protagonist. The protagonist starts the book as a
sceptic, and comes to believe everything he has been taught without question,
and the reader is meant to identify with him. It is a propaganda technique. I
only read the book recently when I heard that Verhoeven was filming it, and
the book really insulted my intelligence.

I'm not calling RAH a "fascist", or claiming that he espoused what ST
espouses, just that it is not an absurd leap.

> I suppose we're suppose to make every future background

A wargamer, and a businessman. Wargamers need wars, as do war novelists. All
narratives demand conflict of some sort.

(I must be in an especially glib mood today!)

I see nothing about the GZG background that is not "Politically
Correct", although I haven't been through it with a fine-toothed
comb or a blue pencil. Does Jon espouse war as "good thing"?

> And god only knows what kind of

In US law, at least, it is only libelous if it isn't true.

> It always amuses me how many peg Heinlein as a fascist because he wrote

I've always been rather dismissive of the claim that Heinlein's SST government
is Fascist. Yet perhaps, in the strictest sense of the term, it is. Just as
Franklin Delano Roosevelt's "New Deal" is strictly National Socialism -
Nazi

> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:53:44 -0500, Los <los@cris.com> wrote:

> It always amuses me how many peg Heinlein as a fascist because he wrote

He wasn't a fascist. He was a libertarian. That's pretty much common
knowledge, and his books reflect that.

In a message dated 3/16/00 9:56:16 PM Central Standard Time,
> aebrain@dynamite.com.au writes:

<<
I've always been rather dismissive of the claim that Heinlein's SST government
is Fascist. Yet perhaps, in the strictest sense of the term, it is. Just as
 Franklin Delano Roosevelt's "New Deal" is strictly National Socialism -
Nazi in the German. And the USA is strictly a Revolutionary People's
Democratic Republic.
> [quoted text omitted]

Particularly grievous to me is the idea that Heinlein extolled war -
SST's
world was unified and at peace until the Bugs came along - what is more
politically correct than a functioning world embracing peacefully oriented
government?

On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:05:35 -0500, "Laserlight"
<laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:

> In US law, at least, it is only libelous if it isn't true.

In US law it can be libelous if it isn't true as long as the person who said
it didn't mean any mallace by what they said. In Canada and Britain (and
probably at least the rest of the commonwealth), the absence of mallace
doesn't prevent it from being libel.

And even if it is true, there's nothing to say someone won't sue you anyway...

Not true. Before the Bugs, they were fighting the "Skinnies," a humanoid

race.

But I refuse to get dragged into this current tar pit beyond pointing that
out.

In a message dated 3/16/00 11:19:43 PM Central Standard Time,
> bbilderback@hotmail.com writes:

<< Not true. Before the Bugs, they were fighting the "Skinnies," a humanoid
race.

But I refuse to get dragged into this current tar pit beyond pointing that
out.
> [quoted text omitted]

No - the skinnies were allies of the bugs and therefore came under
attack.

I seem to recall cthe book saying that the Skinnies were at war with the

humans until the bugs came along, but then allied with us against them.

Great, now I have to go reread it, it's been years.

Another interesting book on powered armor is "Armour" by John Steakly.

In a message dated 3/16/00 6:52:07 PM Central Standard Time,

> At 9:33 PM -0800 3/16/00, Brian Bilderback wrote:

> Great, now I have to go reread it, it's been years.

Whatever can be said against the military side of it (which makes for fun
reading anyway), it is a remarkable psychological study (a hint,
the title doesn't really refer to armor of metal...) . I re-read that
every 6-18 months, and learn more about people I know every time
(then again, I know some disturbed people). It's highly recommended, but it
takes (me anyway) a lot of work to peel through the layers.

Now if I could only find my old (10 years) notes on an Armour game.

> >Another interesting book on powered armor is "Armour" by John

This book has a great quote

you are, what you do, when it counts

The story is in two distinct parts and although I was able to put it down, is
quite readable, the second half IMO was the more interesting.

> On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 JohnDHamill@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 3/16/00 6:52:07 PM Central Standard Time,

That's an easy one - they're simply degenerate freaks, full stop. :>