Soviet tanks and missiles....

If I remember correctly, various models of soviet tanks were designed to fire
guided missiles from their main guns, like a standard round.

What was the idea behind this and is the idea still in use or has it been more
or less phased out?

I mean, with the range and power of more modern APDS and HEAT rounds, why
would you need a slower projectile, even if its guided?

> If I remember correctly, various models of soviet tanks were designed

Yes, out of their 125mm guns fitted to T64s, 72s, 80s and 90s, plus the
various clones made elsewhere. The ATGMs are the AT8 'Songster' and the

AT11 'Sniper' (Russian des. 9M119 Reflecks)

> What was the idea behind this and is the idea still in use or has it

Most Western commentators seem to believe this is because the long range gun
accuracy is so poor. Whether this is because of poor quality guns, ammunition
or sighting I do not know. I suspect they are lagging behind

the West in all these areas.

> I mean, with the range and power of more modern APDS and HEAT rounds,

I am not sure. Basically, I think someone decided that thier tanks would
have a better hit/kill probability with an ATGM than with a gun.  Not
being
a tank-nut I don't keep up with all the latest tank and ATGM specs, but
you could probably find the information by using your search engine.

Cheers

> Jason S. wrote:

> If I remember correctly, various models of soviet tanks were designed

Correct. The Israelis do it too, BTW.

> What was the idea behind this and is the idea still in use or has it

The idea is to be able to hit accurately with a decent punch out to a range of
5 km, rather than be unable to hit anything much beyond 2.5 km.

The main reason why Western tanks don't have them is that Western tanks were
originally designed to fight in western and central Europe, where
lines-of-sight of 5 km are almost unheard of and even 2-3 km are rather
uncommon <g>

> I mean, with the range and power of more modern APDS and HEAT rounds,

Modern APFSDS (APDS are no longer modern!) don't hit very well beyond
3-3.5
km - and that's with *western* equipment. HEAT are even less accurate
thanks to their lower velocity. If you want to hit moving targets at extreme
ranges, ATGMs are pretty much your only hope.

Besides, if modern HEAT rounds have their power increased you can use
exactly the same technology to boost the punch of your ATGMs - they use
HEAT warheads too, after all.

Regards,

Well, the US used to have one, the M60A2,which fired a Shillaleagh missile,
same one used on the Sheridan, from a short tube launcher, along with HE and
HEAT conventional rounds. In addition to some technical problems
(reliability, etc.) it had one huge tactical problem - the slow time of
flight of the missile. In the time it took the missile to get to it's
target, the target or it's overwatch could put 4-5 rounds back down
range at the M60A2, probably taking the M60A2 out before the missile impacted.
Needless to say, the M60A2 was NOT well liked by it's crews.
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> Robert W. Eldridge wrote:

> Well, the US used to have one, the M60A2 ,which fired a Shillaleagh

Important difference here: the Shillelagh-firing gun/missile launcher
used
on the M60A2 and the M551 was a huge-caliber (152mm) low-velocity gun
unable to fire effective KE projectiles, whereas the Eastern tanks fire
ATGMs through more normal-sized guns (115mm and 125mm calibers) which
can also fire APFSDS. As for its impopularity, I bet the Shillelagh's low hit
probability at ranges less than 1 km had something to do with it too... and so
did the tendency of the 152mm rounds to break and spill propellant all
over the fighting compartment :-/

Conceptually the M60A2 and M551 both seem to have been closer to the WW2

"Infantry Support Tank" idea - ie. able to take on enemy tanks in a
crisis,
but their main purpose was to provide massive direct-fire HE (and APERS,

and...) support for the infantry. I doubt that the US Army would admit to this
kind of thinking though, at least in the M60A2 case <g>

Later,

All true, plus firing a conventional round frequently KO'd the Shillelagh
guidance system.
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