> Adrian wrote:
> Fires as Crew Quality vs. Raw Range die.
Question - if your firing action is Quality vs. Range die, then you're
rolling 1 die vs. 1 die. How do you get a major hit (which is when BOTH firing
dice beat the defense die)?
** Answer: Good question! I'm not sure what I was thinking there. I'd kind of
like the possibility of a major hit to give the AT rounds a chance to take out
an AFV more easily, but one die will not a major impact produce as you've
noted. Add to which that only would tell you you've hit the area (MPI) you
were shooting at. Then lay down the template to see what gets attacked. If it
is in the area, it gets attacked.
Hmm. I guess that one line could be turfed. I find it interesting
though - assume vehicles have equal armour all over (I'm still not
sure this is true, but assume it is given the threat from Overhead attack
missiles etc). Then why wouldn't you make your bomblets more powerful? Or make
more than one attack a target? (Answer: SG2 is an infantry game....).
SLAM Variant #1: Beaten zones remain as stated. Roll size class attacks on any
vehicle
caught in the area. That is, for a SLAM/3, roll 3 attacks. For a
SLAM/5, roll 5. This represents the density of projectiles.
SLAM Variant #2. Roll size attacks vs. vehicle under template, but all SLAM
templates are 3"x5". This means more attacks due to more projectiles in the
same area.
SLAM Variant #3. Larger munitions. This specifically applies to AT.
Conventional AT rolls D12x2 vs. armour. Improved AT might roll D12x3,
but for size class of sheaf be treated as one smaller. ie a SLAM/4
firing improved AT might have the sheaf of a SLAM/3.
Just some ideas.
Written by Brendan:
-----------------------------------------------------
From: "Robertson, Brendan" <Brendan.Robertson@dva.gov.au>
Subject: RE: SLAM system For SG2
To make it simpler, how about:
Quality + FC vs Point target range die (no modifier for cover).
(ie: size 1 targets = 12" bands, size 2 = 24" bands etc).
** I wouldn't do this for two reasons. 1) I don't see the SLAM as being that
long of range item. Now, maybe I should be rethinking if we figure this
includes MRLS. But I sort of saw it as Rocket pods. 2) If it is MRLS, then FC
applies. But that seems covered under normal arty rules if I recall. But if it
is unguided rockets from a VTOL or chopper, then FC is not the right choice.
That is why I used crew quality die.
Miss = artillery scatter using LARGEST attack die roll Minor hit = artillery
scatter using LOWEST attack die roll Major hit = direct hit Blast area is
equal to the size class in radius
(ie: class-3 = 6" diameter blast - medium artillery).
** Radius is inappropriate for VTOL or Helicopter fired rocket pods. They have
a beaten zone that is closer to an ellipsoid or rectangle.
Impact is as normal artillery rounds (smoke, GP, AP, AT)
This should balance between having an direct fire artillery attack & being
able to damage the target, as well as simplify the math down.
** The version I use never had any complex math. It was just figure your range
band, roll 1 die for range band, one for crew quality. Compare the results.
Nothing hard there.
The larger vehicles are still mostly immune to the damage, but there is still
the potential to immobilize or damage them, while still dealing with large
numbers of infantry. There is also the potential for really bad shots to
scatter & take out the launching vehicle (don't you hate those misfires...)
** That almost never happens. In fact, given we have IFF, etc. etc. -
I'd think that safeties would prevent that in 2185. The rounds would go dud
before they'd hurt the launch vehicle.
** The question remains: Is an unguided pod of rockets a SLAM? Is a guided
high tech sophisticated MRLS system a SLAM? If so, what mechanism represents
them both fairly? Using fire control and long ranges is overpowerful for the
unguided rockets fired direct fire. Or are airborne (and potentially
groundborne) rocket pods a different beast than a SLAM? If so, different
mechanics should be used to represent them.
** Just my 0.02. Thanks for the thoughts!
> ** The question remains: Is an unguided pod of rockets a SLAM? Is a
What is the essential difference, in game terms, between an unguided rocket
and a cannon shell. If a cannon (RFAC, for example) can use FC to fire
unguided cannon rounds, why couldn't you fire unguided rockets with a FC
system.
Modern attack helicopters firing unguided FFARs have quite complex
computerized aiming systems that can take into account stuff like air density
and the ballistics of the rocket. The rocket itself is unguided, but if fired
from a Cobra or Apache, certainly is using an FC system. Why not for SGII era
vehicles, too.
For the SLAM - I would suggest you assume they are a volley of unguided
rockets. I like your idea for the size of the impact area. This would be easy
to simulate with a template made from clear acetate sheet or equivalent. Use a
FC die and a quality die for the firing unit, and a range die for the
defender. One die success = minor hit, two die success = major hit. Simple, no
complex math. Major hit = double impact. Use the rest of the system as per
your original suggestions. If you're still not sure that the FC of these
weapons should be the same as, say, a GMS fired by the vehicle, how about
saying that you roll a FC die ONE DIE TYPE SMALLER than the FC system
installed on the vehicle. So if you have a d8 FC system and regular quality
crew, you would roll a d6 for the SLAM FC and a d8 for the unit quality.
An ongoing discussion:
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 17:09:19 -0400
From: Adrian Johnson <ajohnson@idirect.com>
Subject: Re: SLAM for SG2
> ** The question remains: Is an unguided pod of rockets a SLAM? Is a
What is the essential difference, in game terms, between an unguided rocket
and a cannon shell. If a cannon (RFAC, for example) can use FC to fire
unguided cannon rounds, why couldn't you fire unguided rockets with a FC
system.
Modern attack helicopters firing unguided FFARs have quite complex
computerized aiming systems that can take into account stuff like air density
and the ballistics of the rocket. The rocket itself is unguided, but if fired
from a Cobra or Apache, certainly is using an FC system. Why not for SGII era
vehicles, too.
** Okay, I'd sort of buy that, though that might or might not make sense for
indirect. Is FC used for Arty? I think not. Yet an MLRS undoubtedly has FC.
Plus (as an aside) your RFAC may not be firing unguided shells in 2183....
For the SLAM - I would suggest you assume they are a volley of
unguided rockets. I like your idea for the size of the impact area. This would
be easy to simulate with a template made from clear acetate sheet or
equivalent.
** (I do that!)
Use a FC die and a quality die for the firing unit, and a range die for the
defender. One die success = minor hit, two die success = major hit. Simple, no
complex math. Major hit = double impact. Use the rest of the system as per
your original suggestions. If you're still not sure that the FC of these
weapons should be the same as, say, a GMS fired by the vehicle, how about
saying that you roll a FC die ONE DIE TYPE SMALLER than the FC system
installed on the vehicle.
** That's easy and I like it. I'm actually a masochist too though, so I assign
different levels of FC for different weapons on my AFVs.... seems to reflect
reality (the HMG still has "basic" FC whereas the 140mm smoothbore now has
Superior...).
** Good suggestion Adrian!
** Wait till you see my ideas for MPs, Engineers, and Armour Crew. This
involves the theory that some troops are excellent at their job, and slightly
less good at other things.
** Everyone's contribution has been appreciated.
With regard to the ranges, I was looking to keep it more in line with the rest
of the heavy weapons, as it's DS range is in the same range brackets as
everything else (36-48" in 1/300 scale, I don't have my book with me).
The firecontrol is more a case of dropping your crosshairs on the target &
then pulling the trigger to hope the salvo goes where you want it. Mainly it
gives the second die to keep in line with the other SG mechanics.
The radius would be easier to work out, as it keeps it the same as artillery
& there's no benefit/disadvantage in arranging the template a certain
way.
I see SLAM more as unguided projectiles launched by the dozen to saturate the
area. Each rocket would be roughly a heavier version of IAVR; no guidance but
plenty of punch. If it was a twin or multiple mount, then it could be treated
as a DS converged sheaf or open sheaf barrage.
MRLS would be more along the lines of Heavy Artillery Rockets; a single round
which has guidance & then spreads cluster rounds over the target area to
maximise hits.
'Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
Commodore Alfred K Hole - RNS Indy's Folly [CB]
Captain Nicolette O'Teen - RNMS Golden Spear [CB]
EBD Medusa
> -----Original Message-----
> ** I wouldn't do this for two reasons.
I probably have this written up somewhere better, just can't find it at this
exact instant. It'll be back in the archives somewhere.....
SLAM System:
Beaten zone is size in " x twice size in " (SLAM/3 is 3x6"). Everything
in the target area gets hit with attacks similar to artillery. To hit, roll
crew quality die vs. range die (target cover, etc. not relevant, only raw
range). D4 up to 12", D6 up to 24", etc. If quality die is higher, no
deviation. If quality die is equal or lower, deviate d12 direction,distance
using same die as range die (d4 at close, d6 at next range band, etc). If it
isn't obvious, RB are 12" and since it is an area weapon DO NOT increase with
target size.
I used this for the "rocketpods" on my Aliens Gunship (GMS/H were the
big missile tubes). It met the need for a DF area unguided rocket system. It
might or might not match up reasonably with DS2, but it works well in SG2.
Tom.