Well, in light of some people 'complaining' that there hasn't been enough
traffic on the list (can't seem to please everyone, can we? too much traffic
on one end, not enough on the other;), and having just gone through a string
of humorous postings on rec.climbing re: route names, I thought what the hell,
I'll query y'all as to what kind of naming conventions you use for your
respective and varied fleets (at least the thread, if it goes anywhere, will
be semi-on topic and may give some people some ideas for their
ships/fleets -
and heck, I'm always looking for new ship names! - and this might even
be
semi-interesting... :).
And since I'm starting this thread, I guess I might as well go first, eh?
(well, what else am I going to do here while at work? Work?? ;-)
Most of the ships I use lately have been in the B5 universe, so I've tried to
follow the rather loose and open naming convention for Omegas and Hyperions.
But for other ship classes, or other 'universes', I've played it a little more
rigorous:
Fleet Carrier - famous carriers/ships (Independence, Enterpirse,
Saratoga, Ark Royal, Intrepid, Kongo, Shikoku, etc)
Light Carrier - mythological figures (Pegasus, Andromeda, Perseus,
Achilles, Argo, Jason, Hiawatha,, Theseus, Raiko, etc)
Strike Carrier - 'fast'-sounding names (Zephyr, Whirlwind, Maverick,
Hawk, Wildfire, Kestrel, Shrike, etc)
Escort Carrier - flying insects that poke/sting/bite/etc (Hornet, Wasp,
Yellow Jacket, Flea, Mosquito, Gelsa, etc).
Superdreadnought - thunder gods and other power gods from various
pantheons
(Zeus, Thor, Loki, Raiden, Marduck, Shiva, Kali, Yen-Lo-Wang,
Apshai, Enceladus, Antaeus, Odin, Freya, Ki, Utu, Ishtar, Silvanus, etc)
Battledreadnought - 'famous' mountains/rock faces (Eiger, Pingora,
Everest, Ama Dablam, Popocatepetl, Patagonia, Vinson Massif, etc)
Battlecruiser - generals, admirals, other leaders (Kirov, Farragut,
Sherman, Nelson, Patton, Rommel, Guderian, Alexander, etc)
'Super' Heavy cruiser - State, province, country names (Montana, Ohio,
Alberta, Queensland, Panama, Argentina, Kenya, etc)
Heavy cruiser - major cities (Seattle, Cleveland, Baltimore, London,
Cairo, Madrid, Rome, etc)
Escort/Aegis cruiser - famous battle sites (Normany, Okinawa, Falklands,
Dunkerque, Kursk, Ardennes, Midway, Gettysburg, Vistula, Agincourt, etc)
Patrol cruiser - miscellaneous names (Fearless, Atlantis, Antares,
Ranger, Liberator, Hyperion, Victorious, etc)
Medium cruiser - Native American tribes, other Seneca, Chippewa,
Cherokee, Sioux, Manetaree, Aztec, Mongol, Zulu, etc)
Light cruiser - kinda lame catch-all ship names (Illustrious, Le
Fantasque, Highlander, Hunter, Scharnhorst, etc.)
Survey cruiser - some lame standards, some funky climbing names
(Discovery, Pioneer, Voyager, Outlook, Event Horizon, Loose Goose, Bitchy
Virgin, Snooky's Return, Yum Yum Yab Yum, Morning After, No Belle Prize, etc)
Battle/Attack Destroyer - FT list members, Tuffley-class (heh!)
Destroyer - Magic:The Gathering cards (I'm cross-cultural - deal!)
(Serra Angel, Zephyr Falcon, Dwarven Warrior, Storm Shaman, Nettling Imp, etc)
Frigate/ Battlefrigate - Babylon 5 episode directors (J.Greek, D.Eagle,
M.Vejar, J.C.Flinn III, etc)
Escort Destroyer - funky names, band names (Sneaker Pimp, Dream Theater,
Ytse Jam, Bloodguard, Quicksilver, Sundancer, Biscuit Board, etc)
I'm not going to touch on my non-human ship names here. Forget it. ;-)
Mk
-Escort/Aegis cruiser - famous battle sites (Normany, Okinawa,
-***Falklands,Dunkerque, Kursk, Ardennes, Midway, Gettysburg,
-Vistula,Agincourt, etc)
***Isn't that supposed to be Malvinas? *hitting the dirt*
-Medium cruiser - Native American tribes, other Seneca, Chippewa,
-Cherokee,Sioux, Manetaree, Aztec, Mongol, Zulu, etc)
Course, the NAC corvette/lancers are already Native American; have to
look again whether there are other FT conventions you're skirting...
Right now, only care on this one cuz I'm hoping to complete that story
about my daughter. ;->=
The_Beast
On Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:39:13 -0500,
Doug_Evans/CSN/UNEBR@UNebMail.UNeb.EDU
wrote:
> -Medium cruiser - Native American tribes, other Seneca, Chippewa,
Uh, I didn't think the Mongols or the Zulus were American tribes...
Don't forget the tribes that are Canadian or on the border such as: Haida,
Ojibway, Huron, Iroquois, Mohawk, Oneida, etc., etc.
> -Medium cruiser - Native American tribes, other Seneca, Chippewa,
No, you misunderstood (actually as I was re-editing the file a '(' got
dropped which might have led to this confusion). I started to name them after
NA tribes, but as I ran out of names, I turned to other tribal types and
ancient cultures (thus it *should* read "Native American tribes, other
(examples here)". Otherwise 'Aztec' wouldn't fit very well, either.
> Don't forget the tribes that are Canadian or on the border such as: =
By Native American I mean to include all of North America, not just
the States. :-)
Mk
> -Escort/Aegis cruiser - famous battle sites (Normany, Okinawa,
Hey, I'm a dumb American; what do I know? Educate me! :-)
> -Medium cruiser - Native American tribes, other Seneca, Chippewa,
Heheh. Well, I kinda was doing it on my own, without much (any) prompting from
the FT line of ship classes.
> Right now, only care on this one cuz I'm hoping to complete that story
Oh yeah! When's the next installment? And is she cute, single?
(d&r)
Mk
Allan spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> >-Medium cruiser - Native American tribes, other Seneca, Chippewa,
Haida,
> Ojibway, Huron, Iroquois, Mohawk, Oneida, etc., etc.
And of course Blackfoot, Blackfeet, MicMac, Inuit, and many others. This is an
incredibly rich naming tradition. The world has so many aboriginal peoples,
and so many having true "warrior" traditions, one shouldn't run out of names
anytime soon. And it is fitting that the future or human space voyaging
honours these diverse groups.
Two more cents,
/************************************************
> Allan spake thusly upon matters weighty:
Haida,
> Ojibway, Huron, Iroquois, Mohawk, Oneida, etc., etc.
some more native nations: Salish, Cree, Comanche, Nez Perce (actually a
Spanish term), Tlingit, Nitnat, Huy'a'aht, Seminoles, Nootka and so many
others.
Interesting bit of trivia: Estimated human population of N.A. before
arrival of Europeans - 250 million.
Scalping was actually started by Europeans as a means to collect "rewards" for
the killing of natives. Hollywood switched it all around making it out to be a
native tradition.
Area of the continental US designated "Indian Territory" and officially
closed to non-natives: Everything west of the Mississippi.
Amount of Indian Territory officially ceded by natives via treaty following US
laws governing such treaties: 0%.
Number of rounds fired by >400 RCMP officers during standoff at
Gustaffsen Lake (1994) in defence of rancher Lyle James' land: +20000
Distance from native sundance grounds to Lyle James' land: +7 miles.
"Smear campaigns are our specialty"- RCMP Sgt. Peter Montague on an
RCMP training video.
RCMP press liason officer at Gustaffsen Lake: Sgt. Peter Montague.
sorry for going off topic folks...
> Two more cents,
************************************************
> -Escort/Aegis cruiser - famous battle sites (Normany, Okinawa,
Warning, WAY OFF TOPIC: Hey, I'm one of those, too. I was just sending a
little tease towards our friends in the UK. Malvinas is what the
Argentinians call Falklands. I would almost prefer Falklands/Malvinas,
honoring the fallen on both sides.
> -Medium cruiser - Native American tribes, other Seneca, Chippewa,
-Heheh. Well, I kinda was doing it on my own, without much (any)
prompting
-from the FT line of ship classes.
I know what you mean, again, small teasing on my part. By the way, Allan was
actually replying to me about the 'Mongol and Zulu not fitting', I think. I
almost said: Oh, by other you mean indigenous peoples portrayed as barbarian
by western culture. However, I know somebody would see through my
(American)liberal tendencies. ;->= I think most of us realized what the
'other' was for. I would point out that I consider Aztec to fit, as the whole
hemisphere is 'the Americas'. Hmmm... that could be off topic, likewise.
Whatever.
> Right now, only care on this one cuz I'm hoping to complete that story
What can I say? Writer's block of the worst kind: get great ideas, but when
sitting down to paper or computer screen, nothing comes out. *sigh* By the
way, that should have been 'Captain Lady Megan Evans', right?
By the way, all dads consider their daughters cute; she would disagree, but
not too strongly. Yes, single, but a tad underage. Now, are you trying to
pick a fight? ;->=
The_Beast
> -Escort/Aegis cruiser - famous battle sites (Normany, Okinawa,
See? I learn something (almost) every day. :-)
> -Medium cruiser - Native American tribes, other Seneca, Chippewa,
prompting
> -from the FT line of ship classes.
Yeah, something like that.
> However, I know somebody would see through my
But if it generates more names for the pool, it's on topic for the
thread :-)
> Right now, only care on this one cuz I'm hoping to complete that story
Take heart, I know only too well how you feel. I have a couple of real life
trip reports that I have yet to finish up. :-( (and it's been a few
years for each of 'em, too)
> By the way, all dads consider their daughters cute; she would disagree,
"It's going to be a long trip."
:-)
Mk
My preference is for the organic ships and Kra'Vak types to have names from
Iain M Banks' Culture.
They may seem quirky ButÂ
Enjoy the novels. The listing is by occurrence in the Novel in < >
<Consider Phlebas> <The Player of Games>
GCU Nervous Energy Clipper Screw Loose GCU Prosthetic Conscience GCU Flexible
Demeanour
GSV The Ends Of Invention [ex-Culture] GCU Just Read The Instructions
GSV Eschatologist (temporary name) GCU Of Course I Still Love You GSV
Irregular Apocalyse GOU Limiting Factor GSV No More Mr Nice Guy GSV Cargo Cult
GSV Determinist GSV Little Rascal GSV Bora Horza Gobuchul GSV So Much For
Subtlety LSV Profit Margin GSV Unfortunate Conflict Of Evidence ROU Trade
Surplus GSV Youthful Indiscretion ROU Revisionist LOU Gunboat Diplomat
dROU Zealot
Superlifter Kiss My Ass Superlifter Prime Mover
<The State of the Art>
GSV Bad for Business chapter & sub titles chapter & sub titles GCU Arbitrary A
Ship With A View Minority Report GCU Cantankerous Ablation Not Wanted On
Voyage GCU Only Slightly Bent Arrested Development Perfidy GCU I Thought He
Was With You Credibility Problem Sacrificial Victim GCU Space Monster Dramatic
Exit Stranger Here Myself GCU A Series Of Unlikely Explanations Excuses And
Accusations Synchronize Your Dogmas God Told Me To Do It The Precise Nature Of
The Catastrophe GCU Big Sexy Beast Halation Effect Thank you And Goodnight GCU
Never Talk To Strangers Happy Idiot Talk Unwitting Accomplice GCU Funny, It
Worked Last Time... Helpless In The Face Of Your Beauty Heresiarch Undesirable
Alien GCU Boo! Well I Was In The Neighbourhood GCU Ultimate Ship The Second
Just Another Victim Of The Ambient Morality You Would If You Really Loved Me
GCU It'll Be Over By Christmas You'll Thank Me Later
<Excession>
Culture - includes Ulterior and Eccentrics Systems Vehicles
GCU Different Tan (Mountain Class) GSV Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival,
The (Plate) GCU Fate Amenable To Change (River Class) GSV Death and Gravity
GCU Gray Area GSV Ethics Gradient (Range) GCU It's Character Forming GSV
Honest Mistake GCU Jaundiced Outlook (Ridge) GSV Limivourous (Ocean) GCU
Problem Child (Troubadour) GSV No Fixed Abode (Sabbaticaler, ex Equator) GCU
Reasonable Excuse GSV Quietly Confident (Plate) GCU Recent Convert GSV Sleeper
Service (Plate) GCU Tactical Grace (Escarpment Class) GSV Uninvited Guest GSV
Use Psychology GCU Unacceptable Behaviour GSV What Is The Answer and Why? GCV
Steely Glint (Plains) GSV Wisdom Like Silence (Continent) Highpoint (ulterior)
GSV Yawning Angel (Range) Shoot Them Later (eccentric;ulterior) GSV Zero
Gravitas LOU Attitude Adjuster (Killer) LSV Misophist ROU Killing Time
(Torturer Class) LSV Serious Callers Only (Tundra) dROU Frank Exchange Of
Views (Psychopath Class) MSV Not Invented Here (Desert)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Zetetic Elench Affront misc
Appeal To Reason Kiss the Blade (Battle Cruiser) (MBU) Full Refund (Empire
Break Even Furious Purpose Class- Homomdan Convertcraft Vessel)
Long View Frightspear Riptalon Superlifter CharitableView (Cliff) Peace Makes
Plenty Wingclipper Cruise Ship Just Passing Through Sober Counsel SacSlicer II
Added Value Within Reason Xenoclast I Blame Your Mother I Blame My Mother
Heavy Messing - ex-culture ship
<Use of Weapons>
GCU? Just Testing dROU Xenophobe GCU Very Little Gravitas Indeed GSV What Are
The Civilian Applications? GSV Congenital Optimist GSV Size Isn't Everything
GCU Sweet and Full of Grace
ship nomenclature
GCU General Contact Unit classes: Delinquent GOU General Offensive Unit GSV
General System Vehicle LOU Limited Offensive Unit classes: Hooligan LSV
Limited System Vehicle MSV Medium Systems Vehicle Desert Class: 3.5km length
(Original GSV concept, now reclassified MSV) o ROU Rapid Offensive Unit
classes: Abominator, Torturer, Gangster, Inquisitor, Killer, Psychopath, Thug,
Scree (LCU) demilitarized Rapid Offensive Unit [Renamed "very fast picket" in
Weapons]
credits
This file was first written by Ian Young and is maintained by Robert Keogh.
-----------------------------------------------------------
The ships are ordered by book, type, and alphabetically. The ships appearing
only as chapter and subsection headings in The State of the Art have also been
added. If there are any errors or ommissions please let me know
rkeogh@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
False!
Certain NA Indian tribes started this but it was a minor thing. The Europeans
USED and ENCOURAGED it as a way of proving kills to pay the bounty. This made
it a common occurence but it was not started by Europeans.
> On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, BEST, David wrote:
> False!
Don't know for sure about that, but:
a) Plenty of us white folks took scalps to claim reward for some private
ethnical cleansing work b) Taking various body parts as mementos is known in
Europe (ears and thumbs were popular)
On Sun, 05 Apr 1998 21:50:41 -0500 (EST), "Warning: dates on calendar
are
> closer than they appear" <KOCHTE@stsci.edu> wrote:
> No, you misunderstood (actually as I was re-editing the file a '(' got
Sure they would. Unless you meant Native American as in from the US. I've
always felt that was too artificial when talking about native North Americans.
The tribal range didn't recognize the artificial borders imposed on them later
by Europeans. Aztec would be fine. So would the Incas, really, if you talk
about "Native Americans" coming from "The Americas."0
> By Native American I mean to include all of North America, not just
That's why I mentioned the "Canadian" tribes. I figured if you were running
low on tribes that you had to add Zulus and Mongols, you needed some
additional names. :-) Don't forget Toltecs, Mayans, and Incas as well.
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:34:39 -0500, Thomas Barclay
<Thomas.Barclay@sofkin.ca> wrote:
> And of course Blackfoot, Blackfeet, MicMac, Inuit, and many others.
Well put, Tom. I'm sure with a little digging up, we could easily come up with
50 or 60 names for Mark without having to go to Europe, Asia, or Africa.
This, too, adds some great naming conventions. Picts, Caledonians, Angles,
Saxons, Britons, Gaul, Visigoth, Ostrogoth, Slav, etc., etc. Lots of good
names there.
> Tony Christney wrote:
...Snip...(JTL)
> Interesting bit of trivia: Estimated human population of N.A. before
...Snip...(JTL)
Tony, Interesting bits of trivia like this make propaganda look like the
truth!
Here is one from the afro-american school:
"In the two hundred years prior to the (U.S.) civil war, more than 300 million
slaves were thrown overboard from slavers along the west coast of Africa. This
forever changed the feeding habits of sharks in the region."
Working the numbers gives: 1.5 million slaves a year. 4110 slaves a day. (To
make things simple lets say 10 ships a day with 411 slaves. Lets also say that
these slave ships can do 100 miles a day and that the distance to be sailed is
5000 miles (This is in fact the distance to Ascension island (just below the
equator, more than 1000 miles from Africa). 50 ships returning from Africa
with slaves. 50 ships going to Africa for slaves.
So 100 ships are sailing back and forth, not a single slave arrived in the new
world, and nobody has made as much as a penny on the slave trade.
While the U.S.A. is about to go thru another cencus, the last number I recall
for population was 230 million. I personally feel that if the indians numbered
250 million, the europeans would have been pushed into the sea. I do not wish
to bore everyone with doing the numbers again (and I am sorry for having done
so!) but PC is just something that sets me off!
Sorry 'bout that,
Ok I can't stay out of this. Had to put my two bobs worth in for the painting,
have to do now.
Carriers- Sydney, Melborune (the only carriers we've ever
had)
LCV- Encounter (former crusier in the British
Australian Squadron)
CVE- Kimbla (WWII supoort ship)
BB's, SD's Pemelway (aboriginal leader who opposed the whites for the first 15
years after settlement), Blamey, Freyburg, Monash, Chauvel
(military commanders of Aus and NZ WWI&II) Brunam-burnam (aboriginal
leader who raised the aboriginal flag on the white cliffs of Dover on
Australia Day 1988 for the bicentenial of white settlement and claimed England
for his people. I couldn't resist naming a ship after such a cheeky bastard)
Crusiers- Adelaide, Perth, Canberra, Hobart, Port Morseby,
Wellington (all cities, only Port Morseby not a former Crusier of the RAN or
RNZN) Tiger, Thresher, White, Hammerhead (these are the "Shark" class being a
patrol boat model from SD, I forget which one exactly. Paint the nose grey
rather than dreamtime style and put eye spots where the forward launch tubes
are. Very Cool.)
DD's-
Battle class- Milne Bay, Lone Pine (Mark major battles
of the Australian army, there were some Kiwis at Lone Pine, SD figures)
Attack class- Assail, Bayonet (ESU figures, former RAN
patrol boats)
Tribal Class- Pitanjarra, Mekeo, Ngati-toa, Tainui,
Tauranga, Fore (Aboriginal, Moari and PNG tribes, NSL super destroyers)
River class- Parramatta, Stuart, Yarra, Waramunga
(Aussie rivers and all former RAN destroyers ie 3 Parramattas) Sipek (PNG) and
Waikato (NZ) (all figures are NSL missle destroyers.)
Frigates-
V.C. class- Cutler, Rattrey, Upham and Holbrook (all
winners of the Victoria Cross Cutler became Governor of NSW (I work in Govt
House), Rattery lived in my home town and was a friend of the family (I never
knew until he died) Upham was a Kiwi (New Zealander) one of 3 people to win
the V.C. twice and the only one to win both in the same war, Holbrook is the
only V.C. winner to have a town named after him (was Germantown until he won
the V.C. in WWI)Figues are NSL).
Country class- Forbes, Wagga-wagga (both country towns
in NSW Australia, Wagga also former RAN corvette, NAC figures)
Animal class- Taipan, Moa (self explainatry, NAC heavy
frigates)
Corvettes- Dubbo, Mackay, Mt Isa (Australian towns all
former RAN corvettes, NSL figures)
Fighter squadrons have numbers of existing or fromer RAAF and RAN squadrons.
I hope this might give people some ideas. At one stage I was planning to use
names for Ian M Banks' "Culture" novels but some of these I just could not
paint on the models or their bases. I have a list somewhere if anyone is
interested.
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:49:48 -0500, Thomas Barclay
<Thomas.Barclay@sofkin.ca> wrote:
> How could you get the Picts without the Kelts or Celts (depending on
You'd THINK I'd mention the Celts. However, my understanding is that "Celt"
covers a wide range of people that also includes the early Germans and Gauls
(but not the Franks, if I remember correctly and I may be wrong). You make a
point, though.
It is Celt. The soft "c" and hard "c" ("k") sound is a weirdness in English.
In the 19th century there was a softening of the letter "c" in English and
it's followed through. The race are Celts (pronounced Kelts), but the Glasgow
soccer team and the Boston basketball team are Celtic (pronounced
Sell-tik).
> One could follow some sort of a heroic naming scheme
No offense, but I'd hardly put Schwartkopf or Powell in the same group as
Patton and Rommel. Also, if using the FT background you'd want to avoid heroes
from another region. The NAC wouldn't use Rommel but the NSL would. I like
using these names myself, though I like to go for less obvious names:
Tokugawa, Slim, Wolfe, Augustus Adolphus, Tecumseh. Funny how American SF
writers (such as on Babylon 5) are quick to go with WW2 and beyond names but
ignore some good ones from the civil war: Jackson, Longstreet, Early,
Sheridan, Meade, Buford, not to mention Lee, Grant, and Sherman (Sherman may
be too "divisive" as might be Sheridan, though both have had tanks named after
them; I wouldn't expect to see a Forrest class ship, though).
> CA: The Montcalm, the Wolfe, the Ney, the Bonaparte, the Wellington,
Whoops. Looks like you cover some of mine. I can supply a bunch of Japanese
heroes if anyone wants, along the lines of Tokugawa, Takeda, and Nobunaga.
> CL: The Horatio, The Xenophon, the Agrippa, the Augustus, etc.
WW1 aces would be good. Historical note: some 25%+ of British aces were
Canadian. There were a disproportionate number of Australians as well.
You've got Ball, Boelcke, Immelmann, Caldwell, Brown, Nungusser, Lowenhardt,
etc.
> I don't think one ever needs run out of fascinating and useful ship
Quite true. I like battle names, myself. My favourite ship name is the Vimy
Ridge. I also like some weirdnesses you'd NEVER see in real life. In the
GenCon game last year, I had Debacle class ships: The Dieppe, The Stalingrad,
and The Somme.
Allan spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> Well put, Tom. I'm sure with a little digging up, we could easily come
How could you get the Picts without the Kelts or Celts (depending on your
bent)?
I'm sure you could also name ships after famous places and geography.
For example, your BB class could include the Himalayan, the Carpathian, the
Ural, the Adirondack, the Blue Ridge, etc. Your CA class could include the
Vistula, the Nile, the Deniepr, the Ganges, the Yangtze, the Fraser, the
Columbia, the Mississipi, the Rideau, etc. Your CL class could include the
Erie, the Huron, the Ontario, the Baikal, the Salt Lake, the Michigan, etc.
Your CV class could include the Giza, the Paris, the Delphi, the
Constantinople, the Jerusalem, the Vienna, etc. Your DD class could include
the Sahara, the Mojave, etc.
(You get the idea).
One could follow some sort of a heroic naming scheme
BB: The MacArthur, the Schwartzkopf, the Powell, the Patton, the Montgomery,
the Rommel, the Eisenhower. CA: The Montcalm, the Wolfe, the Ney, the
Bonaparte, the Wellington, the Adolphus, etc CL: The Horatio, The Xenophon,
the Agrippa, the Augustus, etc. CV: The Nimitz, the Bishop, the Rickenbaker,
the Richtoffen, the Jodl, etc. DD: The Geronimo, the Custer, the Sherman, the
Sheridan, the Lee, the Grant, etc.
I don't think one ever needs run out of fascinating and useful ship names. The
world is so full of wonderful material that there is no shortage.
Tom
> "Well, you could do that. And I could nail your head to the table, set
Mk, I may be wrong in this, but I have an understanding that the
North American Indians have (about) 500 nations. No danger of
running short for some time.
Bye for now,
> By Native American I mean to include all of North America, not just
Oh, no, no danger of running out, I'm sure. Granted, I've only got 20 or so
names down; the list I gave was a sampling from said list, to give an idea of
what I had.
But I haven't had time to research for many more names. Another 40 or 60
wouldn't be unappreciated. ;-)
Mk
> I may be wrong in this, but I have an understanding that the
500? Bugger. I don't have enough ships!
Mk
> Allan wrote:
> >How could you get the Picts without the Kelts or Celts (depending on
Hm... while the early Germans certainly had lots of cultural traits in common
with the Celts (or, at least, several burials and lots of artefacts with
Celtic appearences have been found in Denmark and IIRC Scania), Celtic and
German languages are very different indeed. If the "early Germans" were indeed
Celts, they weren't German at all.
The Franks definitely weren't Celts. Britons, Gauls and Caledonians were
Celts, as were the Galatians (as in St.Paul's "Letter to the Galatians")
but the Picts probably weren't - at least the surviving traces of their
language doesn't resemble the Celtic languages very much.
....
To bring this post vaguely on topic: I don't use human fleets, except in B5 or
similar "set" backgrounds. I recognise about 90% of the human ship names
mentioned in this thread from Weber's Starfire sourcebooks, so I try to
make up my own - based on which fleet I use. For example, my Kimbere
commonwealth fleet borrows a lot from Welsh words and names, though heavily
distorted - the name "Kimbere" itself is derived from Cymru ("Wales" in
Welsh), and it features the DNs Arklood (Arglwydd = Lord) and Prenn (Brenin =
King), the missile cruisers Seetoor and Seetied (Saethwr, Saethydd =
Shooter/Archer), etc. (I said _heavily_ distorted, didn't I? <g>)
The Tel-Aearon Star City (started out as GW Eldar, but have... expanded)
and Haterakan Imperial (GW Imperial, with additions - kudos to the one
who
spots where I stole the name of the empire from :-) ship names follow
the GW naming conventions, influenced by the "real" names of the models
-
for example the "Rending Talon", "Burning Lances", "Soaring Falcon" and
"Roaring Tempest" (conversions of a Silent Death Talon and Lance Electra, and
the new GW Falcon and Scorpion (which replaced the old Tempest grav tank)
models, respectively). In the Imperial fleet, there are such proud ships as
the "Bulwark of the Faith", "Invulnerable" (also called "Old
Faithful" - she's an Ironclad, for those of you who know the GW
background to that model...), "Emperor's Crown" and others.
> Quite true. I like battle names, myself. My favourite ship name is the
Don't bet on it - an ESU fleet could have a Stalingrad SDN! I doubt if
the
NSL would, though :-)
Later,
> Mk. wrote:
> > I may be wrong in this, but I have an understanding that the
Give some of the names to me - at last count I had about 320, and I know
I've gotten some others since then :-)
Later,
The Celts were different and migrated across Europe before Rome expanded and
the Germans arrived. Perhaps some confusion is a result of the
Byzantines (and Arabs )calling any non-greek Kelts or Franks, something
akin to the Greeks and Romans calling anyone else Barbarians. It didn't matter
if they were English,French,Italian or German, if they didn't speak Greek they
were Kelts or Franks.
David Best
> ----------
> >your bent)?
were
> indeed Celts, they weren't German at all.
> At 02:16 07/04/98 GMT, you wrote:
SNIP
> One could follow some sort of a heroic naming scheme
Although the USN had Forrest Sherman class DDs.
> CA: The Montcalm, the Wolfe, the Ney, the Bonaparte, the Wellington,
Translating names can be fun, too eg "Hiryu" = Flying Dragon => "Draco Volans"
Stalingrad? Debacle? There was I thinking it was a famous victory...
;-)
By the way in a "heroic naming" scheme, I think you'd run out of ships (and
chamber pots) LONG before you were reduced to naming anything after Jodl.
cheers, Rob (one of the short dark apelike variety of Celts)
> Rob Paul wrote:
;-)
How true.
Perl Harbour and the sinking of Repulse and Prince of Wales were great
victorys for the Japanese. The burning of Washington was a great victory for
the British. New Orleans, 1814, was a great victory for the Americans. And so
on.
One side's debacle is the other side's great victory.
(My historian side demands I say this. My Canadian side still winces when I
hear the words Dieppe, especially since my hometown of Windsor is where the
Essex/Kent Scottish (one of the reg't involved in the raid) was and
still is home based.)
J.
> On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Jerry Han wrote:
> Rob Paul wrote:
> victorys for the Japanese. The burning of Washington was a great
There are probably Americans who wish Washington had stayed burnt...there are
probably also Canadians who wish Toronto (it was York then) had stayed
burnt...no offense to the Torontonians on the list...:)
> New Orleans, 1814, was a great victory for the Americans.
No kidding - Dieppe, while I understand the thinking behind the raid
(recon-in-force, basically), still causes me to wince...
There is some justice in the world, however: After D-Day, the Canadians
got the job of clearing the French Channel ports - so we went back to
Dieppe, properly this time - and from the land side...
My DS2 force, nomially NAC, has its vehicles named after Canadian, British
& (some) US generals/officers, mostly from ww2, some from other eras. So
the Wellington SuperHvy tank, MacKenzie MBT, Crerar & Patton APCs,
etc...
I don't play FT personally, but when I did with a friend's ships, I tended
to name my vessels after cities, provinces/states, and famous RN, RCN, &
USN ships...I think I had the CL 'Toronto' blown up several times...also the
'Vancouver', the Montreal, the New York, etc (I lost a lot of cruisers of
various types, all named after cities...)
Later,
> Brian Burger wrote:
<Raises Hand> ME! <Mumbling> $320 dollars in income tax my ass....
> (My historian side demands I say this. My Canadian side still winces
That, of course was one of Monty's.. along with Market Garden, closing the
Falaise gap (in which between 20,000 to 40,000 germans escaped), the pursuit
after Alamain..
von Rundsted said of Montgomery "Montgomery was always extremely cautious and
unwilling to take risks... (He) was very systematic, which is all right if you
have sufficient resources and time."
> Mark A. Siefert. wrote:
Is that how much you had to write a check for or what your total tax bill was?
My total federal tax bill was about 10 times that, granted that included
SocSecurity and OldFart Medical taxes as well....
On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 15:02:44 +0000, Rob Paul
<rpaul@worf.molbiol.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> Stalingrad? Debacle? There was I thinking it was a famous victory...
;-)
Well, one person's debacle is another's stunning victory...
On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 08:55:03 +1000, Barry Cadwgan <bcadwgan@fl.net.au>
wrote:
> (My historian side demands I say this. My Canadian side still winces
Monty was only involved in some of the preliminary planning. The blame really
goes to Mountbatten. The rest of the stuff is right.
Oh, and just to save posting another message, to correct Jerry, the Battle of
New Orleans was in 1815, not 1814.
Also (and this is just from memory so I may be wrong about this) I believe I
read years ago the Dieppe fiasco was also contributed to by our own Canadian
government because Canadian troops were sitting in Britain doing nothing and
the government pressured the British High Command (is this the right term?) to
give them something to do and do it soon.
Also for those who don't know it the Battle of New Orleans was fought two
months after the War of 1812 was over. And to that person (I forget who now)
who wished Toronto had stayed burnt....well phhhhhhhttttttt!
David Best
> ----------
wrote:
> (My historian side demands I say this. My Canadian side still
-Also for those who don't know it the Battle of New Orleans was fought
-two months after the War of 1812 was over. And to that person (I
forget
-who now) who wished Toronto had stayed burnt....well phhhhhhhttttttt!
-David Best
Fair's fair, David; I don't think he said he wished Toronto would have stayed
burned, just that he assumed there were those in Canada who'd wish so, as he
wished Washington, DC, were. Course, I would have thought he meant Ottawa, but
I'm terrible with geography... Or translating what someone meant(viz. 'editing
B5 off of C4', or something like that)...
Now, the first part of the paragraph hits on something I always dreamt of in a
campaign system: communications so bad, you'd end up fighting the wrong enemy,
or wasting effort on an objective no longer important. I'm
reminded of the Gregory Peck-as-Horatio Hornblower movie where he
captures a Spanish Galleon and presents it to a rebellous New World Spanish
governor, only to find out that Spain and Britain were allies, and have to
capture it all over again. ;->=
It's crazy, but with PBeM and clubs around the world to either be the home
admiralties, or fight the distant fleet actions, it's almost possible. One
central receipient server to take the orders and translate them into battles,
send out multiple copies and slightly adjusted
orders-of-battle('Oh, that destroyer developed jump engine problems and
had to be left behind...') to keep the action 'blind'.
Oh, geeze, that IS crazy!
Nevermind...
The_Beast