Ship designation decals, suggestions...

31 posts ยท Jan 10 2000 to Jan 16 2000

From: Thomas Pope <tpope@c...>

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 13:34:36 -0500

Subject: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

With a couple of friends I've started to work on producing custom decals for
miniatures that we'll be offering for sale relatively soon, providing all goes
well.

One of the packs I wanted to make is a set of decals for ship identification.
(usually set to the base) These would be block lettering and provide
(hopefully) everything someone would need to mark their entire fleet.

So, if you would be so kind as to review the symbols below and let me know if
there is anything represented in their fleet that could not be constructed
with that set.

-------- Begin Symbol Set ---------
SC-1 SC-2 SC-3 SC-4 SC-5 SC-6 SC-7 SC-8 CT-1 CT-2 CT-3 CT-4 CT-5 CT-6
FF-1 FF-2 FF-3 FF-4 FF-5 FF-6 DD-1 DD-2 DD-3 DD-4 DD-5 DD-6
DDM-1 DDM-2 DDM-3 DDM-4 DDM-5 DDM-6
DH-1 DH-2 DH-3 DH-4 CL-1 CL-2 CL-3 CL-4 CE-1 CE-2 CE-3 CE-4
CH-1 CH-2 CH-3 CH-4 BC-1 BC-2 BC-3 BC-4 BB-1 BB-2 BB-3 BB-4
DN-1 DN-2 DN-3 DN-4
BDN-1 BDN-2 BDN-3 BDN-4 SDN-1 SDN-2 CVL-1 CVL-2 CVH-2 CVH-2 CVA-1 CVA-2
-3 -3 -4 -4 -5 -5 -5 -5 -6 -6 -6 -6 -7 -7 -7 -7 -8 -8 -8 -8 -9 -9 -9 -9

-10 -10 -10 -10 -X -X -X -X -M -M -M -M
--------- End Symbol Set ----------

I'm trying to design a set that can encompass most fleets with little or no
decal clipping, so if the overwealming concenus is that fleets rarely have
more than 2 Battledreadnoughts and often have more than 6 Corvettes, I can
adjust the list accordingly. For the times when someone has a fleet outside
the "norm" I've included a bunch of additoinal numbers at the end, complete
with dashes to help line them up.

This set covers everything in the fleet book except for the NAC Heavy Frigates
(designated as simply a frigate in the data box) Would people like to see a FH
classification as well?

The -X might be useful for experimental craft, and the -m for missile
craft. I'm kind of waffling on the missile destroyer thing. Currently I've got
DDM for
the missile destroyers used by various fleets, as well as -M to add the
designation to another type of ship.

At any rate, I'll welcome all comments on the subject.

Thanks

Tom

P.S. On a related topic, I'd love to hear any suggestions for decal sets
people would like to see; any scale and any era.

From: -MWS- <Hauptman@c...>

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:55:15 -0800

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> At 01:34 PM 1/10/2000 -0500, you wrote:

Greetings, Thomas, and welcome to the growing world of happy Alps owners!

From: Thomas Pope <tpope@c...>

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:22:35 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> -MWS- wrote:

How'd you guess?  :-)

Actually I don't own it, but I get unlimited use in exchange for working on
the
decals.  A friend of mine operates a small mail-order business and we
convinced him to expand. Hopefully we'll have something worthwhile to offer...

Tom

From: Donald Hosford <hosford.donald@a...>

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:51:50 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> Thomas Pope wrote:

> -MWS- wrote:

Alps? What kind of machine is that? (Mountainous?...8D)

From: -MWS- <Hauptman@c...>

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 13:09:30 -0800

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> At 03:51 PM 1/10/2000 -0500, Thomas Pope wrote:

Well, the fact that I bought an MD-1000 a couple of years ago
specifically to print my own decals for my RAFM Heavy Gear minis might have
something to
do with it . . . :-)

From: Doug Evans <devans@n...>

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:20:36 -0600

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

Haven't figured out any suggestions for the number scheme, but this did bring
to mind the other fellow trying to pay for his ALPS by offering custom decal
work that was going to try to get the ok to make decals for the major FT fleet
logos. Has anybody heard anything further on that topic?

The star-and-bars I tried to paint on my ESU look like c**p. I'll
be trying modified Evil Empire(tm) Imperial eagle decals for my NSL, but I'm
not very hopeful there, either.

The_Beast

From: Sindre Cools Berg <cobos@s...>

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:54:13 +0100

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> Thomas Pope wrote:

> With a couple of friends I've started to work on producing custom

I would simply love some proper red stars for my ESU fleet...coupled with the
fleet logo in different colors...

From: -MWS- <Hauptman@c...>

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:37:05 -0800

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> At 10:54 PM 1/10/2000 +0100, you wrote:
[snip]
> I would simply love some proper red stars for my ESU fleet...coupled

Numbers aren't a problem. Doing Fleet Logos requires specific copyright
permissions from GZG, which might be more of a problem since Tom is doing this
"for profit". Something to query St.Jon about...

From: Ground Zero Games <jon@g...>

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:04:18 +0000

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

Hi Schoon -

Re: the message below from the list, do you want to let on yet about the ones
you are doing?
I didn't want to mention them on-list if you didn't want it known yet,
but it might be a good idea if people knew they were coming...

From: Ground Zero Games <jon@g...>

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:07:11 +0000

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> Hi Schoon -

Oh bugger. This wasn't meant to go to the list, and I KNOW I changed the
"to" line..... sometimes I hate email... :-(
Still, I guess you are all wondering what the heck this is about now,
aren't you....?   ;-)

Jon (GZG)
> Haven't figured out any suggestions for the number scheme, but this

From: Aron_Clark@d...

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:29:07 -0800

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

cat's out of the bag now...

Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.com> on 01/10/2000 04:07:11 PM

Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU

To:   gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Aron Clark/AM/Avid)
Subject:  Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> Hi Schoon -

Oh bugger. This wasn't meant to go to the list, and I KNOW I changed the
"to" line..... sometimes I hate email... :-(
Still, I guess you are all wondering what the heck this is about now,
aren't you....?   ;-)

Jon (GZG)
> Haven't figured out any suggestions for the number scheme, but this

From: Thomas Anderson <thomas.anderson@u...>

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:34:05 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> On Tue, 11 Jan 2000, Ground Zero Games wrote:

> >>Haven't figured out any suggestions for the number scheme, but this

ha! you expect *us* to believe *that*? no, Mr Tuffley, this is simply
highly cunning advertising - you pique our interest with a seemingly
mistaken and highly cryptic email, and we rush to buy Schoon's products!
naturally, we'll all fall for it.:)

tom

From: Thomas Pope <tpope@c...>

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:31:30 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> Donald Hosford wrote:

It's a line of printers that uses a "dry ink" system. Perfect for printing
decals. They will also print in white and gold, which can be useful...

Tom

From: Thomas Pope <tpope@c...>

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:04:52 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

A few more thoughts on the decal sets.

First off, I've consulted with the others and we've decided to double the
sheet size (since it's a bit cheaper to print all white) and make a much
larger set.

So far, the set will contain the following:

12x SC CT FF    (numbered -1 to -12)
8x FFH DD DDG 6x DDH CL CE CH 4x BC BB DN BDN 2x SDN CVL CVE CVH CVA

4x AKL APA AK
 2x FT AG SL

Plus an assortment of numbers up to -20 and a few -X's

Will that cover pretty much any fleet? Are there any codes I should remove
(for instance, will anybody distinguish between CVH and CVA?) Any codes I
should add?

Thanks

Tom

From: RWHofrich@a...

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:11:32 EST

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

In a message dated 1/10/00 1:37:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tpope@cs.cmu.edu writes:

> The -X might be useful for experimental craft, and the -m for missile

20th Century navies generally use the letter "G" for designating missile

ships (as in "DDG") meaning Guided Missile, I believe. Just so happens that's
the designation I use as well...

...but then, I'm weird and make my own decals (okay, they're not really
decals, but they work).

Rob

From: Donald Hosford <hosford.donald@a...>

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 02:07:59 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> Thomas Pope wrote:

> Donald Hosford wrote:

Are those things as expensive as I have heard?

From: -MWS- <Hauptman@c...>

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 23:20:16 -0800

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> At 02:07 AM 1/12/00 -0500, you wrote:

Depends on how good a shopper you are <g>.  I bought a refub MD-1000
(which I haven't had a single lick of trouble with) on an online lot sale
closeout for $98 US after shipping. Considering that I got a $50 factory
rebate *and* a $50 ribbon & paper promotional pack along with it, I think that
I
came out fairly OK on that deal. :-)

From: Donald Hosford <hosford.donald@a...>

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 02:29:09 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

Lucky!

Donald Hosford

> -MWS- wrote:

> At 02:07 AM 1/12/00 -0500, you wrote:

From: Thomas Pope <tpope@c...>

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:34:16 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> Donald Hosford wrote:

Not at all!  The MD-1000 runs about $170 last time I checked, and it
will do
most of what you want for decals.  The MD-5000 (what we bought) is
overall a better printer (same technology) and cost us about $500.

Supplies aren't cheap though. Average cost per color print page is $1.00, and
decal paper runs between $1.00 and $2.00 per sheet.

Still, well worth the expense in my mind...

Tom

From: Thomas Pope <tpope@c...>

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:35:08 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> RWHofrich@aol.com wrote:

I was corrected by another listmember in that regard yesterday, so I've
changed it on the final sheet.

Tom

From: Michael T Miserendino <MTMiserendino@l...>

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:47:00 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> owner-gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU at internet 01/11/00 04:11PM >>>

> that's the designation I use as well...

In Traveller and other sci-fi games, I have noticed they have used M for

missile and G for gun. I guess the assumption is, if you have missiles they
are guided to begin with.

Mike

From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@m...>

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:12:43 -0500 (EST)

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, Michael T Miserendino wrote:

> In Traveller and other sci-fi games, I have noticed they have used M

In modern US Naval parlance, the G was added to differentiate from the Gun
versions that were normally just DD or CA or FF. N was added to indicate the
Nuclear powered aspects of the ship.

From: Robin Paul <Robin.Paul@t...>

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:42:13 -0000

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

[quoted original message omitted]

From: Donald Hosford <hosford.donald@a...>

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 00:11:10 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> Thomas Pope wrote:

> Donald Hosford wrote:

From: Donald Hosford <hosford.donald@a...>

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 00:15:26 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

Not bad. At those supply prices one would make sure the pic was ready before
printing...
Can it double as a standard Ink jet at normal paper/ink prices?  If so,
that would make for a very cool printer.

Donald Hosford

> Thomas Pope wrote:

> Not at all! The MD-1000 runs about $170 last time I checked, and it

From: Thomas Pope <tpope@c...>

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 07:26:44 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> Donald Hosford wrote:

Yep!

> Can it double as a standard Ink jet at normal paper/ink prices? If

The $1 per page is just for the regular ink that it uses, there's nothing
special (from the printer's perspective) about printing on decal paper. It
wasn't actually intended as a decal printer, it just ended up being perfect
for the job. I think they intended it as a higher quality alternative to
inkjet.

By the way, that $1 figure is for an "average" color page, taken from a review
I read on the web. I'm not sure how much a black cartridge costs, but I
imagine it wouldn't be that much more expensive to run it as your normal
printer (considering the costs of inkjet carteridges these days)

Tom

From: Samuel Reynolds <reynol@p...>

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:22:00 -0700

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> A few more thoughts on the decal sets.

Not to be a wet blanket, but for anyone using opaque black bases, it's very
easy to print your own alphanumeric labels as white reversed out of black, and
attach them to the bases with a little watered white glue (which also protects
them). That's my approach. Works nicely for labels on the bottom of DSII
vehicles, too. I do the same with transparency sheet for clear bases (but
print black on clear, there).

That said, if I could just buy decals of various symbolic elements (i.e., not
just alphanumerics), I probably would.

- Sam

From: Roger Books <books@m...>

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:03:19 -0500 (EST)

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> On 13-Jan-00 at 10:25, Samuel Reynolds (reynol@primenet.com) wrote:

> Not to be a wet blanket, but for anyone using opaque black bases,

Have you tried this with any other colors? I'm thinking about green on a black
background. I have green, yellow, and red bases which I can swap out when I
have to use my FSE fleet for both sides of a battle.

From: Donald Hosford <hosford.donald@a...>

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:12:27 -0500

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

Oy! Too rich for my use...My brother and I tend to use up a 250 sheet ream
every month or so! Guess I will have to just stick with plain old Ink Jet
printers for
now...

Donald Hosford

> Thomas Pope wrote:

> Donald Hosford wrote:

From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@m...>

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:37:46 -0500 (EST)

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Robin Paul wrote:

> I have a vague recollection that G originally supposed to be SAM, and

G would be SAMs or cuise Missiles (Akula SSGN) in general use. There have been
exceptions. There are always exceptions...

From: Samuel Reynolds <reynol@p...>

Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:16:06 -0700

Subject: Re: Ship designation decals, suggestions...

> On 13-Jan-00 at 10:25, Samuel Reynolds (reynol@primenet.com) wrote:

Shouldn't be a problem.
Use colored paper--the "neon" paper works well. You can get
small packages at office supply and copy places.

Print "white" letters reversed out of black. That'll give you colored letters
on black. Cut them out, then black out the edges with a laundry marker (to
eliminate ragged white or colored lines that might otherwise be visible around
the edges.

Use thinned white glue (I use Aleene's "Tacky Glue", thinned 50:50 with
water). Brush a little glue where you want the label. Apply the label with
tweezers, pressing it down to expel most of the glue. Use the brush to remove
excess glue, brush a little glue over the label, and let dry overnight.

- Sam