SGII Question Armour and Cover

12 posts ยท Jan 6 2005 to Jan 10 2005

From: Richard Kirke <richardkirke@h...>

Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:19:43 +0000

Subject: SGII Question Armour and Cover

Hi,

Probably a question that has come again and again, but it worried me that I
coudln't decide what the answer was.

When a unit is in cover it recieves an armour bonus, 1 shift for soft, 2 for
hard cover. Is this an open shift? The book does not (IIRC) say so, but if it
isn't, then does this mean that Heavy power (for example) are invulnerable
from ranged fire while in soft cover?

TIA

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 15:43:29 -0500

Subject: RE: SGII Question Armour and Cover

> When a unit is in cover it recieves an armour bonus, 1 shift for soft,

I don't recall but I don't think so, I'm pretty sure the armor die stops at
d12. And you can always roll a 1.

 It is possible to be invulnerable due to range + cover, of course--if
you're in hard cover at RB4, you're safe (until your opponent uses a sniper or
a heavy weapon, in which case you may abruptly find out that you're not
actually at RB4)...

From: Nicholas Caldwell <nicholascaldwell@e...>

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:30:40 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: SGII Question Armour and Cover

It has and there is actually an official answer on it from Jon.

Ummm, I can't remember what that is, though.  :-)

Tom B?

nick

[quoted original message omitted]

From: Robertson, Brendan <Brendan.Robertson@d...>

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 09:38:25 +1100

Subject: RE: SGII Question Armour and Cover

If an open shift exceed d12, then you start reducing the Impact die in the
same step process. I don't think you can get a greater shift than I:d4 vs
A:d12 currently.

Brendan 'Neath Southern Skies

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From: Nicholas Caldwell <nicholascaldwell@e...>

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:51:51 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

Subject: RE: SGII Question Armour and Cover

Right, but if it is a "closed" shift then you don't reduce the impact die. So
is the armor for cover an open shift or a closed shift (I think that is what
Richard is asking).

I remember it being a closed shift, but I couldn't find anything in the
stargrunt.ca faq to back me up.

Nick

[quoted original message omitted]

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 18:04:10 -0500

Subject: Re: SGII Question Armour and Cover

> Right, but if it is a "closed" shift then you don't reduce the

The default is Closed Shift -- see  Die Type Shifts, page 6.

From: Jared Hilal <jlhilal@y...>

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:32:39 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: SGII Question Armour and Cover

> --- Laserlight <laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:

> > Right, but if it is a "closed" shift then you don't reduce the

But a house rule making it an open shift is IMO an improvement (and a good
idea for SG3).

While on the subject, seperating cover from concealment is also an
improvement.

J

From: Richard Kirke <richardkirke@h...>

Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 19:04:00 +0000

Subject: Re: SGII Question Armour and Cover

> > Right, but if it is a "closed" shift then you don't reduce the
That is pretty much what I am asking, is it a close shift (as detailed in the
rules) and so does this mean that power armoured troops (armoured D12) are
invulnerable from all ranged attacks when in soft cover? What about vehicles?
Are they similarly invulnerable in cover?

This would appear to be what the rules state. As many of you may have noticed,
I have a bit of a bee in my bonet about how tough PA are...

I agree over the idea of separating Cover and Concealment btw.

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 15:28:58 -0500

Subject: Re: SGII Question Armour and Cover

> and so does this mean that power armoured troops (armoured D12)

Two points here: a) Page 6 actually says "those that use OPEN shifts are
clearly specified, such as IMPACT vs ARMOR opposed rolls (see P.38)". There's
no reference on P38, but there is on P13 and that appears to be the Official
way to do it (per
http://www.stargrunt.ca/ref_info/sgca_sg2errata/sg2_errata.htm ,
fourth bullet point).

This means the firer's IMPACT die would be downshifted--so, say, a
IMPd10 weapon firing at d12 PA in hard cover would shift down to a d6 IMP vs
d12 armor. That's not ideal for the attacker, but the Powered
Armor is not invulnerable--if you look at
http://home.quixnet.net/deboe/links/fmaodds.htm , you'll see that a d6
attacker beats a d12 defender about 21% of the time.

b) I've always played with it as a closed shift--which means that D12
PA wouldn't get any armor benefit from being in cover (although it's still
harder to hit in the first place).

If you're going up against PA, you'll probably want to issue IAVRs to your
troops. And avoid close combat.

From: Richard Kirke <richardkirke@h...>

Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 15:25:46 +0000

Subject: Re: SGII Question Armour and Cover

Ok, I'd happily play it as an open shift and assume that that is a typo in the
rulebook.

> b) I've always played with it as a closed shift--which means that D12

If it's a closed shift then as I understand the rules it would not be that
they get no benefit, but rather could not be harmed. Have I misunderstood
closed shifts?

> If you're going up against PA, you'll probably want to issue IAVRs to

A good point. How would this be done?

6 soldiers each with IAVR fp D10
roll 6 x D10 + quality against range

potentially loads of casualties... at impact D12? This seems a bit deadly to
me. Or should Impact D8 be used, given that they are AT rounds being fired at
a dispersed target

IAVRs are not something I have ever gamed before.

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:05:55 -0500

Subject: Re: SGII Question Armour and Cover

> If it's a closed shift then as I understand the rules it would not

Yes. See Page 6, Die Type Shifts. "Any excess shifts are ignored and the D4 or
D12 used as appropriate"

> 6 soldiers each with IAVR fp D10

Assuming you have one per man and want to fire off all your IAVR at
one time.  Typically I'd issue 2-3 per squad, not one per man.
(There has been a suggestion that multiple support weapons firing at once
should each be resolved individually, wander around www.stargrunt.ca and
you'll see it).

From: Adrian Johnson <ajohnson@i...>

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:12:04 -0500

Subject: Re: SGII Question Armour and Cover

I posted this a few days back but didn't see it appear in the list digest:

-----------------------

> I remember it being a closed shift, but I couldn't find anything in the

stargrunt.ca faq to back me up.

Hi folks,

> From the stargrunt.ca errata page at:
http://www.stargrunt.ca/ref_info/sgca_sg2errata/sg2_errata.htm

"From Jon Tuffley via Robin Lee Powell:

<snip>

Page 13, near the top left, says that being in cover modifies the armour die.
The summary on page 36 says that no modifiers should be applied to the armour
roll. Page 13 is correct. This has a substantial effect on the affects of
cover.

<snip>

Page 6, paragraph 8 makes a reference to page 38, but no such remark (about
open shifts in an armour/impact roll) is made on page 38. Such a comment
is made on page 13 (right column, paragraph 4). The author's verdict is that
the armour/impact roll is an open shift for vehicle hits as well as
infantry. Combined with the above about cover, the armour vs. impact roll for
infantry takes on a very different flavour. "

I hope that helps.