Hi. I'm, uh, new here. I recently bought SGII, having been playing GW games
for about 10 years (Sorry, couldn't help it :-) , the last six as a
member of Edinburgh University Wargames Society, and for next year I'm
planning on running a bit of an SGII campaign. I have no idea what background
or anything else we'll be using at the moment, however I'm sure we'll cobble
something together. Working out what to do without points values, which while
not ACTUALLY producing balanced forces, at least tend to work as a pointer
could be interesting for a start...
Having read through the rulebook, and played a couple of games (a fair while
ago, admittedly) I came across the Electronic Warfare section. Very useful
looking, given how powerful command units are, however I was wondering -
is there actually any value in having your EW rig switched off? Did I miss
that it takes an action to activate, or something? I've had a brief trawl
throught the archives here, which has answered most of my other questions, but
no doubt some more will turn up.
Just thought I'd say hi,
Hi Ian,
I've only been here for a couple of months myself, however "How do, and
welcome". Don't play SGII myself so doubt we'll talk much but if you have any
questions or ideas just chuck them on the list, the guys and gals here give
damn good analysis and advice.
Anyways, take care and have fun!
Regards,
Matt Tope.
[quoted original message omitted]
> On 23 Sep 2003 at 10:15, Ian Fletcher wrote:
> Having read through the rulebook, and played a couple of games (a fair
The EW rules are perhaps the worst written part of the book. The value of
having the EW rigs turned on is explained, but there is no explanation as to
whether or not it costs an action to turn it on and whether or not there is a
downside to having it on or an upside to having it off.
It's been mentioned here before, but Jon T. hasn't weighed in with a ruling
and no consensus has ever been reached.
There are two typical house rules to fix this problem. One is to require the
activation of the set to cost an action, with some other effects thrown in.
This has a certain appeal, but it also usually means that the TO&E in the back
of the book are badly hobbled due to the EW unit being part of the command
squad. For this reason, players using this option usually split off the EW
personnel from the command unit.
A second rule is much simpler: just allow the EW set to go active
automatically as soon as the unit with the EW set is activated. So, if it's
the command squad, the player gets the 3 EW chits whenever the command squad
is activated. This has a couple of benefits in game
play: it's quick (and goodness knows SG2 doesn't need anything _else_
slowing it down) and it requires the player to make an important tactical
decision regarding when he should activate the command unit.
Both of these are detailed in the house rule section of my web site. You'll
find, if you go there, that the EW rules aren't the only section that need
clarification. There are also problems in the artillery rules, allocating
casualties, vehicle loading and unloading, and bailing out of vehicles. You
can see how I handle these, and usually an explanation for my interpretation,
at:
http://sg2.hyperbear.com
My site also has the _Stargrunt II Index_, which makes navigating the
rule book a lot easier.
I hope this helps.
Hello,
My group has been playing with some simple house rules that make EW a little
more tactical.
We've been using EW operatives in autonomous teams (EW fella and rifleman)
rather than as part of command groups. Haven't worried about the Activation
issue, cos it wasn't fun, so we just assumed the package is always on. The
only problem is that as the EW die isn't affected by range then there's no
incentive to take risks with the op. He might as well just sit in the safety
corner along with the command squad and other cynical cowards.
So we tied EW effectiveness to range. They're more powerful the closer they
are to the target being jammed / spoofed / counter-jammed.
When a player declares an EW attack, he must measure the Ops range to the
target.
Range bands are measured according to the tech level of the EW package:
Basic package = 6" range bands.
Advanced package = 8" range bands.
Superior package = 10" range bands.
EW dice is based on the inverse of the usual range band calculation.
If EW op is within one range band of target then he rolls to jam on a D12
2nd band D10, 3rd D8, down to the D4.
Obviously, you can use extra EW counters to boost your dice type and we don't
allow the package to function at all beyond the 5th range band,
regardless of spare counters. Counter-jamming and spoofing work the same
way. As far as I can remember, the rest of the vanilla EW rules remain
unaffected.
If jamming a comms attempt then we measure to the nearest unit in the comms
chain. Missile spoofing is measured to the point of launch.
We've been using these rules for a while and they're a lot of fun. EW ops take
real risks to try and get near particularly important enemy units and lock 'em
down. Or some players try and place their ops in a position to affect the
maximum number of enemy units so they can make multiple jamming attempts with
high rolls. Often the operatives are caught out of position and out of range
and have to hare across the battlefield when the focus of
an attack switches. Then counter-jammers try to close the range with
their EW rivals to try and reduce their impact. Sure, casualties among the EW
fraternity have risen but they're more often mentioned in dispatches and
they don't seem too over-bearing as yet.
Let me know what you think.
Cheers, Mark
> Allan Goodall wrote:
> On 23 Sep 2003 at 10:15, Ian Fletcher wrote:
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Hi Ian,
I sympathize with your bit of confusion over the EW stuff in the SG book.
We've had the same issue for years with them here. Allan proposed a couple of
fixes, as did Mark D (and good ideas there, Mark, though I think the
ranges are too short - the effects of EW should be longer ranged than
that, I think, though the ideas are definately interesting!).
I use an even simpler method of resolving this. An EW unit is given a number
of chits to use (1, 2 or 3), and at the beginning of each turn, it has access
to all of the chits without requiring the expenditure of an action. The chits
are used during the turn when needed, and when they're all used, the EW unit
can't use them again until the beginning of the next turn. This is *simple*,
and leaves the player with the tactical decisions about when to use their EW
without forcing them to activate their command squad earlier than they would
like, to gain access to EW (or, for that matter, to have a separate EW unit).
As to "game balance" issues regarding EW, well, that's a tough one. As with
balancing any SG game, it really comes down to "what feels right" and
experience with the system - since so many things count toward 'balance'
(morale, terrain, scenario design, leadership, weapons, squad sizes, etc etc
etc). Once again, a simple way to approach this is to give each player
the same access to EW - but in a campaign situation, perhaps each player
doesn't have very many of these units so they have to choose carefully where
the units are sent, etc.
Anyway, welcome to the list!
<plug> If you're looking for more resources, once you're finished poking about
in Allan's website (plenty of interesting things), take a peek at
http://www.stargrunt.ca.
</plug>