...trees. Yes, it's a new year, my wife gave me an Ogrethulhu miniature for
Christmas, and I'm in the mood to actually complete a project or three.
So...trees. What do you use, how do you base them? I've been making do with GW
"Jungle Trees" for SGII (which, frankly, look damned good if you do nothing
more than give them a thin coat of green ink) and some bizarre sculpey
creations that my wife made a year or so ago, but it's time to get some more
things done.
The jungle trees are on individual bases: that's coming to an end. They fall
over at the drop of a hat, it's a pain to place them all, and AOL has
considerately sent me a whole bunch of free bases to work with. In addition,
I've picked up some more normal trees (meanr for model RR use) which are going
to get the same treatment.
DSII, I've been making do with pieces of lichen on top of green felt. It
works, but it doesn't look all that good. I've got some bumpy chenielle ready
to be chopped into evergreens, but I'm not sure how to base them yet
-- bases have a bad habit of warping on me, usually several months after
I've finished working on them.. Any suggestions? The AOL CDs are too big for
this purpose, unfortunately.
> So...trees. What do you use, how do you base them?
> DSII, I've been making do with pieces of lichen on top of green
How about put several trees on each AOL base?
> > So...trees. What do you use, how do you base them?
The resulting forests are a little larger than I want for DSII purposes.
The obvious
answer is to cut the CDs into smaller shapes, but I'm hoping to avoid that and
save the CDs for the bigger trees.
Tree bases = pennies. Either single or arranged in a triangle. Works for
chenile or RR trees.
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]
[quoted original message omitted]
> At 09:13 AM 1/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
Pennies. Cheaper than the small washers that I was going to use, too. How
do you attach the trees to the base? I was going to use this two-part
epoxy putty I picked up at the hardware store -- dries rock solid in
about
five minutes, much faster than green stuff -- but I'm hoping for a
better way.
> A useful source of exotic-looking vegetation are plastic terrarium and
This sounds odd, I know, but none of the local pet stores have plastic plants
which look fake enough. They have this really boring faux seaweed stuff, which
isn't too useful for tabletop purposes. I'm still looking for cheap, garish
plants that I can chop up and use, but the aquarium owners appear to have more
taste these days.
This does remind me to hit AC Moore's and pick up some plastic "evergreen"
Christmas wreaths, though. With the right ones, you can apparently make very
nice pine forests by chopping them into bits.
> Also crafts shops have "plants" used for all kind of flower
It
> works, but it doesn't look all that good. I've got some bumpy
I've just found a good local RR store; I need to really give their terrain
department a going-over. I've heard this Iceland Moss mentioned before,
and I understand that it's much better than the Woodland Scenics lichen that
I've been using.
> An interesting suggestion I never tried myself is to use a piece of
That sounds neat...but I'd be afraid of losing troops under it, forgetting
that they were they. I get stuff lost in the lichen as it is. Damn camoflage!
On Tue, 01 Jan 2002 11:28:39 -0500 John Crimmins <johncrim@voicenet.com>
writes: <snip> Any suggestions? The AOL CDs are too
> big
Well at 1" = 100 meters for DS2 - how about large (?) catfish farm
ponds?
This was inspired by the recent tempest in a teapot between Vietnam and the
USA over Free Trade and the definition of what a 'catfish' is or is not... The
rice farmers diversified into catfish and the US congress responding to voters
in their districts apparently defines 'catfish' to not include whatever the
Vietnamese are raising. The usual geopolitical dandruff is dropping out ("All
politics is local") as expected.
Anyway, put a polymer clay 'island' over the hole and put the commercial
catfish farm (or whatever) on the table. Instant water obstacle to tracked or
wheeled vehicles (and foot) to maneuver around...
Gracias,
> --- Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@juno.com> wrote:
> responding to voters in their districts apparently
Did you have to tell me this on a day I couldn't reach for a drink??? Really??
> Anyway, put a polymer clay 'island' over the hole
That's a damn neat idea. Expect to see these in a con
game some time (not my next one--that's going to be a
firepower demonstration about what happens when a reinforced armored batallion
goes after a recon
company with a LOT of off-board artillery support).
Probably superglue if your trees have enough 'base' area to form a good bond.
All of my trees have wire trunks, so I was able to wrap the end in
a circle and plunk it down on the penny in a good dollop of superglue.
> John Crimmins wrote:
> At 09:13 AM 1/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
How
> do you attach the trees to the base? I was going to use this two-part
I'll post a photo (url)
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]
Hi,
some good suggestions so far!
> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 11:28:39 -0500
I'm picky when it comes to terrain, so I use primarily stuff I've found in
model RR stores or, please forgive, from GW. I had a friend who was a regional
manager for GW, and he used to get me all kinds of stuff at 60% off the retail
price, which made it a *lot* more attractive.
But my favourite trees were purchased at a locak RR Hobby shop. I just
look for discounts/sales/good deals - normally the good ones are a bit
pricy.
If you want "dead and burned" trees, you can get the (I think woodland
scenics) bag sets, which come with a bunch of plastic "trunks" and bagged foam
stuff to use for folliage. I just put the folliage aside, bend the trunks into
shape, base them, and hit them with a very light coat of black
primer. This will give you a black/brown burned look, which you can
accentuate with a bit of drybrushing and inking. Fast, and looks good for
"dead" or "burned out" forest.
I tried actually assembling them as trees, but wasn't very satisfied with the
result. They are intended for static train displays, and don't hold up well to
the rigours of the gaming table.
> The jungle trees are on individual bases: that's coming to an end.
They
> fall over at the drop of a hat, it's a pain to place them all, and AOL
Hah!
I've been collecting useless CD's for a while now - have a big pile that
I'm looking for something to do with... Didn't think of putting trees on them,
though.
They would be a bit... regular. Perfectly round...
I guess if you base them with the same flock as your table (if you have, for
an example, one of KR's battlemats), they'd look ok.
How about this. While I know that mentioning GW usually sends someone
on-list into a frothing frenzy, they do sell some useful stuff. You can
buy bags of bases. Their normal "slottabases" aren't very useful, but recently
they're started selling some larger, round bases that are quite thin. They are
intended for larger models, are maybe 1.5" or 2" in diameter, and are at most
half the thickness of their usual bases (maybe a
couple of mm at most - to mix units...)
These would be *excellent* for basing trees (one big one, two small ones for
SG, several DS size), and I bought a bag with this purpose in mind.
The price was pretty reasonable, and you get a bunch - 15 or 25 or
something. I forget exactly.
> DSII, I've been making do with pieces of lichen on top of green felt.
It
> works, but it doesn't look all that good. I've got some bumpy
You could buy some sheet styrene and use that...
See if there are any plastic suppliers in your local yellow-pages (or
equiv) and see if they have some offcuts they might be willing to sell you
at a decent rate. 1/16" stuff would do just fine, and will be stable
(won't curl up like foamcore or cardboard). Using a "solid" base like this
(or cut hardboard - which is by far the most durable, but requires
either
power tools or a lot of patience) makes for great terrain - but
sometimes a bit inflexible. It annoys me to know end to want to position a
model *just
there* but have it blocked by a glued-down tree...
I was in a local craft store a while back, and they were selling sheets of
felt (about 12" x 9" or so, for about $0.50) in different shades. I bought a
bunch, intending to try to flock them.
I know KR uses a slightly complex process to create the battle mats (I
think he screen-prints the glue, and then uses a big sifter to apply the
flock - he told me at GZG-ECC last year, but I don't remember everything
he said). I'm thinking this might be possible to replicate, at least on a
smaller scale.
I want to try using watered down white glue in a spray bottle, spray onto my
felt (precut to shape, probably) to get a relatively even coverage, and
then sprinkle flock. The idea is to make forest-mat pieces that will go
onto my battlemat, but in a slightly darker shade. They'll represent the edges
of the forest area, and then I'll put a couple of individually based trees on
them to make them more visually appealing. That way, I can move the trees
around on the base if I need to stick a model where the tree is.
Hey, KR, if you're listening, here's an idea for you. How about doing
pre-cut (or cut-out-able) forest bases like this. I know you have
pre-printed felt mats for roads and stuff, but are they flocked? Do
them in a slightly darker shade of flocking, and they'd be great for this...
Anyway, that's it for now.
More pics at http://www.sonic.net/~mwbrown/
Tree_base1.jpg and 2 I just used White (PVA) glue
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]
> I've been collecting useless CD's for a while now - have a big pile
I thought of melting them--put in an oven and bake, eg over a wire
form to get alien buildings. Haven't tried it and I don't know
whether the base material will melt or just burn--I think it's
polyether or polyester but I wouldn't swear to it. If someone else has enough
time on their hands to try it, make sure it's in a ventilated area
> At 01:19 PM 1/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
> bond. All of my trees have wire trunks, so I was able to wrap the end
The cheneille -- it's too damn late to worry about whether I've spelled
that correctly -- has a very tightly wrapped core, that would not be
easily unwound...especially at this scale. I'd be more likely to destroy the
tree shape than anything else.
Not a major problem, though. The putty should do fine. I just wanted to see if
there was anything obvious that I'd missed.
> I'm picky when it comes to terrain, so I use primarily stuff I've found
GW does some stuff really well. Their terrain tends to be in that
category. All of the 1/300th scale stuff they've produced has been
gorgeous, especially the plastic ruins this time around. Faux-Gothic or
no, you can make some really nice pieces with them.
For that matter, the 28mm ruins are pretty damned nice too.
> If you want "dead and burned" trees, you can get the (I think woodland
Same problem here -- in fact, I'd forgotten about them since. Using
them
as burned/dead trees is an excellent idea, and will fit well with the
rest
of my terrain pieces...I have a lot of ruins and post-apocalypse type
stuff. I'll have to go digging for them.
> I've been collecting useless CD's for a while now - have a big pile
I save all kinds of crap, and I've got somewhere close to 30 AOL disks.
They've been waiting for a project, and this should do just fine.
> They would be a bit... regular. Perfectly round...
A guy I know had a whole bunch of trees on round bases -- two or three
trees to each base, on very thick plastic. I had misgiving when I first saw
them, but when flocked, they blended into the rest of the table just fine. So
yeah, I'll be flocking them. And adding small rocks, and using acrylic gel
medium to add some texture. They shouldn't stand out much at all.
> How about this. While I know that mentioning GW usually sends someone
I'll check that out. Bases are among the things that GW does right --
the new flying bases, for example, are quite nice indeed.
> See if there are any plastic suppliers in your local yellow-pages (or
I tend to be a terrain perfectionist myself. I like my boards to look as
good as possible. -- but then, I've been spoiled. This is the kind of
thing that I've been used to:
http://www.users.voicenet.com/~rjfrantz/images/G2.JPG
I will, however, look into a plastics supplier. I know that there's one in
Philly, near the convention area.
> I want to try using watered down white glue in a spray bottle, spray
This is, actually, what I've been doing, with the jungle trees and green felt
cut into shapes. The disadvantages are that the trees keep falling
over -- easily solved if you have more foresight than myself -- and that
it takes longer to set up a really large table. But again, that's not a huge
problem.
> Hey, KR, if you're listening, here's an idea for you. How about doing
I think that he already does make these. He did a few years ago, at least
-- I remember ordering them for Jenkintown, more than once.
> At 03:30 PM 1/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
Ahh! Thank you -- I couldn't quite picture the use of three pennies,
but that looks very stable indeed. And I've got a jar full of pennies right
over here, too....
> I will, however, look into a plastics supplier. I know that there's
Plastics suppliers, US East Coast: Laird, Trident, Cadillac, Ain, Commercial,
plus others. Most of their offcuts will probably be acrylic but that should
definitely include.118" and.090", and possibly.060"
thick also. You can score & snap it--if you use a jigsaw, use a slow
reciprocation rate and/or put soap on the blade to keep the acrylic from
heating up too much (it melts--will seal together behind the blade and
also gum up the teeth). Styrene sheet comes in 30x40" sheets, as I recall, and
thicknesses of.030,.060,.080. You may also want to try Sintra or the
equivalent, which is a form of PVC and comes in 1mm, 2mm, 3mm etc. If you
don't have a plastics supplier (or if they do't want to bother with small
orders), try an acrylic fabricator. Failing that, a sign
shop--most of them are larcenous at heart but you may be able to pick up
"small offcuts"--don't call it "scrap"--at a reasonable price. Let them
know that you're not picky about which material (sintra, styrene, etc), just
the thickness.
G'day,
> That sounds neat...but I'd be afraid of losing troops under
I've done that too.... worse still my figs have walked straight past
opponent's figs sitting in the lichen and then looked quite taken a back when
they got shot at.... "Where did that come from?!". Made for a nice kind of
ambush effect, but it was a tad embarrassing;)
> At 10:07 AM 1/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
thick also. You can score & snap it--if you use a jigsaw, use a slow
reciprocation rate and/or put soap on the blade to keep the acrylic from
heating up too much (it melts--will seal together behind the blade and
also gum up the teeth).
Thanks -- I hadn't known about saoping the blade. And there's a Trident
Plastics somewhere downtown, if memory serves. I'll make a trip this weekend.
> At 11:13 AM 1/3/02 +1100, you wrote:
And gaming tables are weird -- you never know what'll blend in. A
friend of mine painted some bunkers in this really garish "camo" scheme:
mustard yellow, medium blue, bright red, and bits of silver. Amazingly, when
surrounded by the lichen and the alien (converted aquarium plants) trees that
we used for science fiction games, it blended right in to the terrain.
look here for my trees, you have to see these to believe them (well...)
Currently I have some smaller for DSII and a couple of 25-8 mm sized
ones
http://www.tablegamer.com/dirtside/trees.htm
describes the process too!
> On Thursday, January 3, 2002, at 12:37 AM, Jim Callahan wrote:
> look here for my trees, you have to see these to believe them
I tried to look at this link but received a "could not find server" error.
There's been some slow connections in my area tonight so maybe it's not you
but just in case...
G'day,
> And gaming tables are weird -- you
Sounds cool! We've got grand plans to have enough terrain so that one day we
can have a set for Derek's stuff to blend in... one day;)
Cheers
> At 12:37 AM 1/3/02 -0600, you wrote:
> Currently I have some smaller for DSII and a couple of 25-8 mm sized
They look good -- how durable are they? I would expect the flock to rub
off pretty quickly -- it would if *I* made them, at least....
> At 09:57 PM 1/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
actually, we haven't had aproblem with the flock rubbing off. I usu. pick them
up by the 'branches' anyway (not on purpose, they just lend themselves to it)
and throw them in a box. The flock seems to stay on pretty well.
I don't really like the look of pvc covered flock. IMHO it is a little
shiny.
> Diamond wrote:
> At 09:57 PM 1/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
> ones
> I don't really like the look of pvc covered flock. IMHO it is a
I have found one can add more water to the mix to lower the shiny level
(lowering the protection factor as well, of course). A quick
dry-brushing
or dusting with the appropriate colored chalk also does the trick. Matte
sealant might take off the edge as well.
I am actually trying to move away from flock entirely by texturing stuff
with a spackle/pvc/house-paint/sand mixture. I am tired of every battle
being in a green field, or green forest, or on green hills, or on green...
well you get the idea.
Matte sealant is a good idea, I'll try that.
yup, me too one of our first ultra-modern minis battles was fought on a
'Moon' where we took a sheet of extruded polystyrene (blue or pink styrofoam
board for those not in the know) and spray painted it grey. the spray paint
ate into the blueboard enough so that there were what looked like crater marks
and rough terrain It was really nifty, then the
dog ate the board (and some minis) and the moon went away.
What sort of ratio do you use with spackle? I have taken to spackling the
hills before I paint & flock them. It adds a comfortable amount of weight to
the hill and that way it can be made out of white styrofoam
(beadboard) instead of extruded polystyrene (it's a bit cheaper). once
you get the wallboard mud on the styrofoam, you can put all sorts of cool
textures into it before it dries, scratch wheel ruts into roads formed by
dragging a 1" ruler along the surface etc. The textures that you can acheive
are really great too. Anything from the rocky terrain of Mordor to the smooth
surfaces of a frozen comet. I have been known to cast rocks from plaster and
embed them in a hillside.
> Diamond wrote:
> I don't really like the look of pvc covered flock. IMHO it is a
> battle being in a green field, or green forest, or on green hills, or
> What sort of ratio do you use with spackle? I have taken to spackling
> really great too. Anything from the rocky terrain of Mordor to the
I am pretty unscientific with my mixing. For the first coat I get the mixture
pretty runny, so I can just paint on a layer with a cheap brush that will seep
into all the nooks and crannies. I would guess it is something like one part
water to one part spackle with enough black paint to make the mixture primer
grey. For the thicker texture making mix I use one part water, one part glue
and one part spackle with some beach sand and
whatever color craft paint needed. It holds up to abuse well - I have a
5 year old nephew who plays with the hills and rock formation terrain when he
comes over and he has not even chipped the things yet.
I have had some thoughts of doing some "leafy" trees. But I allways ran into
"how to do the leaves?" Then I thought of it...just do a "forest" of tree
trunks. The leafy portions of major trees are usally a ways up. This will
probably look really strange, but construction should be shorter.
As for bases, I discovered that "Crayola" makes a "modeling clay". This is
really a kind of rubbery material. While it does make a solid, it remains
somewhat flexable after "drying". I think it will survive the handling better
than "solid" clay. It comes in packs of white, and
multi-color packs. The box says it can be colored by paints or markers.
As for "premade" trees, pine / palm trees are easy to get.
Try www.Sugarcraft.com -- tree page. These are trees made for cakes.
You will have to trim the spikes a little before use. I ordered some of these.
They arrived after a couple of days.
I would love to hear of a source for gaming quality premade leafy trees.
Donald Hosford
> Diamond wrote:
> >What sort of ratio do you use with spackle? I have taken to
> I don't really like the look of pvc covered flock. IMHO it is a
I'm a little behind on this, but Modge-Podge from the craft store
comes in a flat version. Looks and acts like white glue but dries flat. It's
also fairly inexpensive compared to something like Elmers.