Scott mentions the US halftrack as having a.50 and a.30. This is the standard
APC halftrack. The Quad mount.50 I was referencing in my piece was the ADA
version of the M3 halftrack (the exact vehicle code or name I don't have
handy) whose rear fighting area was largely occupied by a large.50 quad mount
on some sort of rotating mount. It was designed for ADA, but was very
dangerous on the occassions it was employed against infantry as it had a
ludicrious volume of fire.
I like Allan's suggestion of treating infantry elements under fire from ADA
(air def arty) as if subject to terror. This just makes good sense to me.
OTOH, Allan's suggestion of rolling each barrel separately seems also
reasonable, but a little on the time consuming side which is why I
roll QD + n FP or n FC dice depending on manual sights or actual FC
system. It's faster and probably produces a fair number of casualties with
less rolling.
RE: Nebelwerfers etc. Either treat a multi-tube launcher as a size up
(small Nebelwerfers treated as a medium single strike) or treat them as
multiple discreet strikes. Or perhaps roll deviation for the main strike (or
the first barrel), then deviate each individual shot around that using d4 for
distance and d12 for direction.
Keep in mind both Nebelwerfers and ADA should be dangerous, but not the
ultimate weapon to which no others compare.... there were an awful lot of
infantry, tanks, aircraft, etc. so they should also be given their due and
since SG2 intentionally palsies maximum infantry weapons ranges, vehicle
weapons, vehicle operations (how many things can happen at once), etc., maybe
keeping the artillery and ADA slightly toned down from reality is only fair.
In the end, if it keeps you and your players happy, naught else matters a
tinkers cuss!
:) Tomb
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:39:51 -0400, kaladorn@magma.ca wrote:
> I like Allan's suggestion of treating infantry elements under fire
Thank you!
> OTOH, Allan's suggestion of rolling each barrel separately seems also
No, my suggestion of rolling the barrels independently was only against
aircraft or any other vehicle! The reason is that if you roll each barrel
together against vehicles you get weird things happening. You will more than
likely get major hits (which doubles the impact of the weapon) and then how do
you resolve impact? Take the impact roll, multiply it per barrel, and then
double that?
For example, you have, say, a D12 impact on your guns. D12 impact won't do
much good against 5D12 armour. But, with a quad mount, you'd be rolling
QD +
FC + FC + FC + FC. That's probably 5D8 versus whatever range die. You're
very likely to get a major hit. Then, you'd be rolling 8D12 against the
armour. Not very realistic for a D12 impact weapon to shred a main battle
tank.
Against a single vehicle, I would resolve the impact individually,
representing the chance of each barrel hitting and doing damage.
However, against infantry I would do QD + FP + FP + FP + FP, then make a
panic test.
FYI: The half track model is the M16 which is armed with a Maxson mount in the
rear. IIRC the problem with the Maxson mount was that it ran out of ammo
quickly. Each gun was fed from a 110 round magazine. At 500 rpm you got about
10 seconds of fire. If you could kill all the infantry within 10 seconds, you
were ok, but I would guess it takes quite some time to reload all four guns,
even with two loaders, in which
case a couple of rifle-grenades or a panzerfaust could ruin your day.
--Binhan
> -----Original Message-----
Remember that effective range on a .50 is 1800m :0 I think that there
might be a chance to reload as these things would work as platoons, or at
least pairs.
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]
We handle this situation by making sure the fire control dice are a different
color from the quality die.
Then, a quick glance at the dice tells you how many major hits, minor hits and
misses you have without having to roll each barrel independently. You will,
however, have to roll each impact independently, but that generally
doesn't take too long and doesn't make a quad-RFAC a BOLO killer, or
allow a.50 cal to take out a Panther.
> No, my suggestion of rolling the barrels independently was only against
than
> likely get major hits (which doubles the impact of the weapon) and then
how do
> you resolve impact? Take the impact roll, multiply it per barrel, and
You're very
> likely to get a major hit. Then, you'd be rolling 8D12 against the
Not
> very realistic for a D12 impact weapon to shred a main battle tank.
> At 9:53 AM -0600 10/22/02, B Lin wrote:
Sure, if you fired non stop. But then so would the single mounted 50's With
two guys to run belts into the guns you can keep them running quite a bit with
only minor waits. Also, those larger ammo cans are 200 round cans. Thats 25
seconds of constant fire.
These turrets were also used on Guntrucks in RVN by transportation
units. There were several versions with either 3-4 pintle mounted
.50s or with a pintle.50 and a maxon turret in the back of a 2.5 ton truck. I
should think that the quad and twin 50 mounts provided enough fire time for
the weapon to be useful in bursts at targets for the firepower to be more than
marginally effective like you seem to indicate.
http://www.eustis.army.mil/dptmsec/MUSEUM/gun_truck_crews1.htm
http://www.landscaper.net/theguns.htm#Gun%20Trucks%20-%20Quad%2050's%20a
nd%20Mini-guns
The Twin 40mm's were also useful for ground support missions.
Well thank you all for your comments! There were some pretty good ideas as
well as the usual technical background the this list can pride itself with;)
Very interesting reading folks!
@Tomb: We will definately not make these weapons "ultimate" weapons, this is
not what we intend and not very fitting for the scale we're playing. We just
like to prepare for everything;)
Thanks again guys!
On Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:28 AM, Allan Goodall
> [SMTP:agoodall@hyperbear.com] wrote:
You're very
> likely to get a major hit. Then, you'd be rolling 8D12 against the
Not
> very realistic for a D12 impact weapon to shred a main battle tank.
For vehicles you're trading off greater chance of a hit against the damage.
So the above example would roll QD + 4*FC; damage would be: minor hit
1d12*, major hit 2d12*.
Also the fact that unless the gun is a point-fire weapon, it cannot
affect any vehicle with armour greater than 1 anyway (which a 50 cal is
unlikely to qualify for).
> FYI: The half track model is the M16 which is armed with a Maxson mount
Actually the situation is a little more complex even in the US army of WWII In
half tracks for dedicates AA you have:
M13/M14: Each equiped with the Maxson mount which could
have a twin or quad 50cal mount. The original mount was a twin 50 cal and I
suspect it was upgraded (and retrofited?) to a quad mount. The Maxson mount
was also in a towed version. M15: This was a hybrid weapon with twin 50 cal
and one 37mm canon
As a side item there was a tracked APC in the US army the M19 which had a twin
40mm cannon.
Now the US is rather easy when it comes to AA weapons. The British are
more difficult since they tended to convert tanks/APC's into moble
AA vehicles and I list at least 6 different vehicles so converted. The
Germans have 20+ AA vehicles.
The Russians are a little easier. Over 1000 US AA haftracks were used by
the their Armored forces and was their primary SP AA vehicle.