SG2 Thoughts or Ideas - Long

3 posts ยท Jun 22 1999 to Jun 24 1999

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:55:41 -0400

Subject: SG2 Thoughts or Ideas - Long

Hi all,

Just thought I'd throw out some SG2 ideas I plan to tinker with shortly. Some
are original, some are based off of things Jon has suggested, or other gamers
I've played with have suggested. One is a
re-hack of my original overwatch concept, and the sniper/spotter
duality.

None are "proofed", and the english probably needs work. I'm more interested
in any thoughts or comments from SG2 players (and others interested in same)
and from anyone with real background in this stuff than I am in worrying about
the minutae of grammar at the present. I also did these without my SG2 books
(left both copies in Kingston this weekend... DOH!). So some may contradict
slightly or re-iterate things said
therein.

Note also I come from the "Simulation Gamer" crowd. I like fast things, but I
do like full coverage of rules. I'd rather play a slighly more protracted game
that has a few more rolls but "feels better" than
a short one - just so's you know where I'm coming from. SG2 is a great
game, flows very fast, and is easily extensible (I find). So if I think about
some suggestions for particular situations, it is to model what I think of as
appropriate behaviours more than to poke some hole in the rules or make life
difficult for anyone... (though that is, esp. during experiments, sometimes
the
effect...)

Comments always welcome, and I'm hunkered in my Ortillery Defence Bunker in
case anyone wants to salvo
my base....

Without further adieu.....

-----------------------------------
SG2 with Standard Distributions

In any case where a die roll reads (dA x B), instead of rolling 1dA and
multiplying that result by B, roll B dice of type 1dA. For example, D12x3 is
normally 1d12 multiplying the result by 3. In this variant, it becomes 3D12
summed.

Armour Crew Bail-Out

Bailing out of an AFV is traumatic. Usually, it is done because the vehicle
has been attacked and disabled. Armour crew are comfortable fighting inside
the vehicle (witnessed by the fact that vehicle suppressions have no effect)
but should not be pleased or confident on the ground after having their
vehicle slagged. They may have cross trained as infantry, but with the
exception of some APC crews, infantry is not their primary MOS.

In order to represent this, when a tank is disabled or destroyed
by a weapon, bail-out rolls are made as normal. For crew members
that make it out, there is a morale test required at TL +2.

Also, if tank crew are forced to fight outside their MOS as infantry, they are
treated as troops of one lower quality colour, with any restrictions that
brings.

For example, a STEADY REGULAR tank crew of 3 with LEADERSHIP 1 get struck
by a GMS/L which penetrates and destroys their vehicle. The EW
tech is slain. The other two crew (including the leader) escape
uninjured. The crew must pass a Morale Test at TL+2, +1 for the
first casualty. So the crew must roll a 5 or higher on a d8 to remain STEADY.
If they succeed, they become a GREEN infantry unit of two men with a STEADY
morale and a LEADERHIP of 1. If they fail, not only do they drop in quality to
GREEN, but they may drop in morale to SHAKEN or BROKEN. (depending on the
roll).

Major Impact Crew Escape

If a vehicle is disabled or destroyed by a major impact, the size class of the
weapon should be doubled for purposes of crew casualty resolution. That is to
say, a major impact that disables a vehicle should be resolved as if the
weapon was twice its size class. A major impact that destroys a vehicle should
be resolved as if it was four times the size class.

Fighting Positions

Fighting positions are not only a "cover" benefit, giving two shifts of cover
versus attacks (1 from overhead attacks if overhead protects are installed),
but also they are a morale benefit to defending troops. Troops defending in
fighting positions that must check to recieve a close assault, or that must
test due to being victims of a vehicle overrun, or
the approach of an AFV recieve a +1 modifier if they are in fighting
positions (the test is one level easier, minimum 1). If they are IP in
fighting positions, this becomes a +2 modifier. Troops forced to
assault fighting positions not only have the disadvantage of being attacked
from behind cover during the first round of the close assault, but also suffer
a penalty to their close assault initiation test. The penalty is a +1
TL increase in the difficulty of the test.

Another modifier that should be represented - suppression of trenches.
A unit suppressed in a trench should have a negative on the first round of CC
(same justification as why armour shifts only apply to defenders
on the first round - that is the closing action - then troops are
intermixed and positions are not a factor anymore). This shift should be
nothing for 1 suppression (not enough fire to affect things), 1 negative die
shift for 2 suppressions, and 2 negative die shifts for 3 suppressions. Note,
this is in addition to the fact that troops which are suppressed may not
engage in Final Defensive Fire if the close assault takes two moves to arrive.
(as per SG2 rules).

Interrupt Fire: Reaction or Snap Fire

Reaction fire or snap fire is where a squad sees another enemy squad moving
and tries to interrupt the other squads movement to engage it. Reaction fire
may be initiated under the following circumstances:
        - an enemy squad is seen to be moving (including moving
to close assault or to retreat) in LoS of the squad that desires to execute
snap fire.
        - the squad to be activated has not yet been activated that
turn.
The Reaction Test to initiate snap fire is at TL+2. If the snap fire
execution test succeeds, that unit immediately activates and performs one fire
action. The action is resolved from whatever point in the movement of the
target the snap firing unit desires. The results of the fire action are
determined, any morale checks taken, etc. If the unit being fired upon is not
forced to retreat due to casualties, it may elect to either finish its
movement as indicated or stop where it was fired upon. If it had another
action, it may take that action
subsequent to the fire resolution - this could include another
movement or counter fire. The firing unit then has its counter flipped to
indicate it has activated for that turn, thus sacrificing one action.

Interrupt Fire: Overwatch

Overwatch fire is protective fire used to cover a friendly unit or to engage
an enemy unit passing through an overwatched sector. It is very similar to
reaction fire. Overwatch differs in that it is an action taken by a unit (or
part of one). This action may be taken if the part of the unit in question has
not fired previously during the turn. This is a "get set and watch" action. It
must be the last action of
the unit in the turn (except for re-org, communicate, or transfer
command). A unit on overwatch is may activate any time an enemy unit in its
LoS
activates. When the overwatch unit wishes to pre-empt an enemy action,
the unit declares it wishes to act, then resolves an overwatch reaction test
(a reaction test similar to snap fire, only at TL 0). If the test is passed,
the overwatching unit may pre-empt the enemy action. If not, the enemy
action occurs first, then the overwatch fire occurs. Once a unit has fired on
overwatch, it is considered to be no longer in overwatch. (Note, it is
possible to place a SAW on overwatch and the rest of a unit on overwatch
separately, and they will activate independently).

        Variants

        A) Involuntary Trigger - overwatch is intense and hard to
maintain without breaches of fire discipline. This translates to a reaction
test for Green or Untrained troops anytime an enemy unit activates in LoS. If
this test at TL 0 is not passed, the unit immediately activates, fires on the
target unit, and then is considered to be off of overwatch. Regular and better
troops have enough fire discipline and experience to negate this effect.

        B) Sustained Fire Overwatch - when SAWs, LMGs or HMGs (or GACs
or RFACs) are used in overwatch mode, they are capable of high volume fire
over protracted periods of time. This means that they are NOT considered off
of overwatch once they have fired once (unless they fired as part of their
squad). They may fire again and again. Note that each time they fire during a
given turn, their firepower dice should be reduced for future firings during
that turn. If it ever drops below a d4, they may not fire again and are
considered to be off of overwatch. The downside of these multiple firings is
the risk of damaging the weapon. On any roll beyond the first, a roll of 2
causes a jam or malfunction (round stuck due to breach or barrell heating,
etc.).
This means the weapon can not fire until cleared. A roll of 1 means the
malfunction is serious and may not be cleared by anyone who is not an
ordinance tech, ergo the weapon is out of commission until repaired. Clearing
the requires 1 action.

IP Reaction

IP reaction represents a tendency for grunts to hit the deck or seek cover
when fired on, even if the fire is ineffective. This is an involuntary
reaction. In some cases, it is even a benefit. It can result in veteran troops
finding cover before effective fire hits their position. It can also result in
poor troops taking fire casualties, then hunkering down in cover unwilling to
move easily.

Any time a unit is fired upon while not IP, it must make a check, even
if the fire is ineffective. The check is a reaction test at TL +1.
Succeeding in this test means the unit can opt to ignore the fire (well, at
least not
go in position frantically) and continue its action - resolve the fire
and carry on normally. Failing this test means the unit tries to take cover.

A second die roll is required - a reaction test at TL +2. If this test
is suceeded, the unit attempts to go IP (as per standard rules) BEFORE the
incoming fire is resolved. If successful, it gets the benefits of being IP
versus the incoming fire. If this second test is failed, it means the unit
gets the worst of both worlds - it tries to take cover, but does so
too slowly to be effective. The fire is resolved, and then the unit makes an
IP roll.

Sniper Target Identification Rules

The sniper rules seem a tad generous (for speed and streamlining) in allowing
the sniper to select his target. This is as much based on the FP of the weapon
as on sniper skill, which isn't all that sensible anyway. Here is an alternate
interpretation.

A sniper must conduct a "spot" action before firing if he wishes to pick his
target. This spot action is an opposed roll. The sniper rolls a dice for his
sensors and another for his quality. The defending unit rolls its range dice
for defence (with any cover or IP modifiers). If either of the snipers dice
beats the defenders dice, the sniper has picked his target.

Then, when the sniper fires, the results are interpretted slightly
differently. If the sniper was unsuccessful in spotting his target, he may
never pick his target. He may only randomly hit squad members in the target
squad. If he has picked his target, it is then necessary for both his FP and
Quality dice to beat the enemies defence dice, or he will know who he want to
shoot, but miss them (except by random resolution giving him that target). If
he beats the defence dice on both dice, he does pick the target he was aiming
for.

Sniper/Spotter Rules

A sniper spotter combination is the traditional way snipers are deployed.
Typically, the spotter carries out 'spot' actions for the sniper and the
sniper then fires. The spotter may also defend the sniper and may carry him
out (or vice versa) if either is wounded.

If a sniper operates without a spotter, he will not only have to spot for
himself, and take the risk of being attacked while sniping, but he will be
less effective as he has to spot his own rounds. This translates as a one die
type downward shift in sniper FP die type.

If a sniper has a spotter, the sniper/spotter combination may
spot/fire as 1 action
(leaving the squad another action). The spotting is resolved before the fire,
and the sniper fires with full FP.

Sniper Mobility

Snipers should be treated as light infantry if in light armour. Marksmen in
squads wearing armour are obviously limited by their brethren and their
armour. But sniper teams in light armour may move very quickly indeed.

Stealthy Movement

There are two types of stealthy movement - one of which is "move
quickly, but silently"
the other is "low and slow". If moving silently/fast, a unit moves one
die type slower
(this cannot be executed by a unit moving 4" to begin with) - so a
d8x2 light infantry movement becomes d6x2. Note this is ALWAYS a combat
movement. It involves pauses, ducking into cover, etc. The effect of this
appears in double blind (or single blind) games and
other places where the moving unit is undetected - it is one die shift
harder to detect.
The stealthy/slow option is a much slower movement. Not only does it
drop the die type one notch, but it drops the roll multiplier entirely. So a
d8x2 light infantry combat movement becomes a d6 movement. A d6x2 standard
infantry movement becomes a d4 movement. This method improves the odds of
remaining hidden by two die shifts. Note: Movement is
what catches the eye - not usually colour contrary to popular belief.
Still saves. Movement kills.

Hidden snipers can use this slower movement style. The sniper rolls a unit
quality die vs. the inverse range die of the nearest (or best) observing unit.
The sniper shifts his quality die up (then the enemy range die down as it is
an open ended shift) for cover modifiers. The inverse range die means this:
Roll d4 in the 5th range band, d6 in the 4th range band, d8 in the 3rd range
band, d10 in the 2nd range band, and d12 in the first range band.

If the sniper wins, he moves all of his counters by the amount rolled on his
movement roll.
If he fails, his figure appears at its destination - he has revealed
himself! For example, the best observing unit is a regular unit 210 meters
away. The sniper moves through from a treeline through some scrub to get a
better position. He rolls a 4 for movement, and moves 40 meters closer. The
regular unit attempts to observe this move. The sniper is a veteran, and is in
light cover, so he rolls a d12. The sniper ends up in the second range band of
the regular unit (150 m out) and so the range die is a d10. The sniper rolls a
7, but the unit rolls a six. The sniper has moved successfully to his new
position, and places his counter and his dummies around that position. Pity
the poor unit when the sniper opens up in the first range band...

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:29:01 -0400

Subject: Re: SG2 Thoughts or Ideas - Long

> Note also I come from the "Simulation Gamer" crowd. I like fast

I, on the other hand, would like a DBA-for-DS2 set.  Has anyone done a
conversion like that (to save me the effort)? HoTT might work better than DBA,
since it has rules for aerials. I've seen the De Bellis Munde Seconde page
attached to Ed Allen's website, and that's along the right lines, but for DBM
instead of DBA.

Or I may go back to GEV. I just rediscovered my GEV rules. No counters,
unfortunately. Does anyone know where to find clip art counters? Feel free

From: Robertson, Brendan <Brendan.Robertson@d...>

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:10:23 +1000

Subject: RE: SG2 Thoughts or Ideas - Long

Most of them are reasonable good, but can slow down play a bit (not that
you're worried about that).

With the Overwatch, I wouldn't use any of the varients; make it an all or
nothing affair.  Set it using a re-org action & nominate a target point
(if no sightline) or a target unit that is visible. The unit gets 1 activation
to fire with after either their targets 1st action or second action, or when a
valid target moves within 3" of the target point or between the target point
and the unit. This should reduce the chances for abusing the activation rules,
as the way I read your current ones, the unit can move, set overwatch & then
make 2 (split) fire actions by using only the 1 activation.

The sniper spotting rules could probably be simplified down to a Quality
roll using a TL equal to the range (ie: range band 2 = TL+2), this
should speed it up while still giving defender a chance to not lose their
officers.

The stealthy sniper movement could be made easier by simply using the IP test.
If it is passed, the sniper can move their hidden counters 6", if he fails,
then the sniper is revealed unless no unit has LOS to any of the original
positions.

'Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
Commodore Alfred K Hole - RNS Indy's Folly [CB]
Captain Nicolette O'Teen - RNMS Golden Spear [CB]
EBD Medusa

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