Anyone who may have _ANY_ of the 20mm Blade miniatures, could you
please contact me with a listing of what you have? I am looking to find the
entire
range (or as much as possible). The hopes are very small of ever
locating the original molds, but there is still a small amount of hope. In the
event
that they cannot be located/purchased, I would like to have a wide
enough selection for use in creating new molds. There is a legal issue
involved with the creation of new molds, but I am working on that aspect right
now with my attorney.
I of course would be able to share the new castings with anyone who has some
originals to offer (when they are available of course), but first things
first. I need the masters.
Any quantity, and almost any condition (bare preferred, but painted is not a
problem) would be greatly appreciated, and from anywhere in the world.
You can reach me at:
Scott,
I've got three figure from Blade that I just received from Brookhurst Hobbies.
I presume you've got everything in their stock already, but I wanted to offer
them at any rate.
All three are the little flying robots. I will get you the specific item
numbers tomorrow if you think you might need one or more of them.
I'm glad to hear you are trying to reissue the line. I just discovered it
recently, and it looks well worth the effort.
Thanks
Tom
I'm not sure if you've ever done any casting before, but in case you (or
anyone else reading this) haven't, I'll just throw this out there.
Generally speaking a mold made from a casting doesn't produce very good
castings itself. The mold masters have somewhat exagerated detail which is
"softened" when the mold is made. So a mold made from a casting will further
"soften" the detail and result in castings with very fuzzy detail.
Many years ago someone in Florida (who shall remain nameless) made GW
knock-offs
by making molds from models he purchased and then resold them at a fraction of
the price. The detail on the knock-offs was very poor, but they sold
like hot cakes because they were much cheaper. (He quit doing this right after
GW had their lawyers visit him)
I just thought you ought to know this, if you desire is to preserve the
character and detail of the mini's, which seems to be the case.
Your only real hope of producing the mini's at their original detail level is
a) get the molds, b) get the masters and make new molds, or c) resculpt them
from scratch.
I hope this wasn't too discouraging.
Bill
"Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com> on 12/01/1999 08:02:16 AM
Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
cc: (bcc: Bill Brush/NET/UNL/UNEBR)
Subject [SG2] Seeking anyone with 20mm Blade
: Miniatures
Anyone who may have _ANY_ of the 20mm Blade miniatures, could you
please contact me with a listing of what you have? I am looking to find the
entire
range (or as much as possible). The hopes are very small of ever
locating the original molds, but there is still a small amount of hope. In the
event
that they cannot be located/purchased, I would like to have a wide
enough selection for use in creating new molds. There is a legal issue
involved with the creation of new molds, but I am working on that aspect right
now with my attorney.
I of course would be able to share the new castings with anyone who has some
originals to offer (when they are available of course), but first things
first. I need the masters.
Any quantity, and almost any condition (bare preferred, but painted is not a
problem) would be greatly appreciated, and from anywhere in the world.
<snip>
> Generally speaking a mold made from a casting doesn't produce
I don't agree I have seen copies better (some originals can be badly cast)
or as good as the originals - you can't tell them apart. It actually
amazed me they were so good as I was expecting detail challenged replicas as
you suggest.
I concluded that copy quality generally depends on the skill of the caster and
the equipment and materials used.
Its the legality/ethics of it that may stop you not the quality.
I'm surprised by this. I have a friend who does a lot of metal working
(swordsmith) and we've done some castings, and we've always had problems
making a copy of a copy, unless it was a very simple model to begin with.
I would be curious to know what the person making the copy did to make it turn
out better than the original. At a guess I would say he probably used a)
better mold material than the original, b) better material for the casting,
and c) maybe enhanced the detail of the original before making the mold.
Regardless, what I said was from a general standpoint, and as you've just
mentioned, there are always exceptions.
Bill
"Tim Jones" <Tim.Jones@Smallworld.co.uk> on 12/03/1999 09:54:49 AM
Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
cc: (bcc: Bill Brush/NET/UNL/UNEBR)
Subject RE: [SG2] Seeking anyone with 20mm Blade
: Miniatures
> Generally speaking a mold made from a casting doesn't produce
I don't agree I have seen copies better (some originals can be badly cast)
or as good as the originals - you can't tell them apart. It actually
amazed me they were so good as I was expecting detail challenged replicas as
you suggest.
I concluded that copy quality generally depends on the skill of the caster and
the equipment and materials used.
Its the legality/ethics of it that may stop you not the quality.
We had a group of GW players in town making there own molds using some kind of
kit that can be found at the hobby shop (well one of the four shops in town at
the time) The group could get a small number of new fig's from the molds
before they had to make new ones.
I think they where getting 4-6 fig's before they started to look sh*tty.
The darkside of it was they tried to pass off the copied fig's to new GW
gamers as "New" and doing it out of the hobby shop to boot!
> Many years ago someone in Florida (who shall remain nameless) made GW
> I don't agree I have seen copies better (some originals can be badly
Yes. I too have seen cast lead copies made in moulds that were taken from
store-bought cast models that were as good as (or really close to being
as good as) the original model. Time and care taken in producing the mould,
and using good material. One of the best sources for casting figs is melting
down old lead figs... My friend who casts metal has tried several sources of
lead, and consistantly the best source is old figures... Other sources often
have strange impurities that mess with the fine detail reproduction.
The RTV rubber "home casting" kits you see in hobby stores is usually a
MUCH softer material than the oven-vulcanized rubber they use for
production casting - and you can get EXCELLENT detail reproduction. But
they don't last all that long. I've seen some make over a dozen models
without a problem, but not much more than that - and by then the mould
is degenerating...
If the figs you are casting are rare/impossible to find, or are really
expensive, then it is perhaps worth it - if they are reasonably priced
then
maybe not - the cost of RTV is rather high, for the amount of figs
you'll get out of a mould.
> Its the legality/ethics of it that may stop you not the quality.
Well, legally there's nothing anyone can say if you decide you want to cast
figs for your own use at home. If I want to hand-build an exact replica
of
my car - there's NOTHING illegal about that. If I try to SELL it, and
represent it as the original, that's a different story. From a legal point of
view, unless a product is protected by some kind of enforceable legal
mechanism (like a copyright for printed material or a patent for machinery or
chemicals) there's not much you can do to stop someone making and
selling copies - unless they do so representing them as YOUR product.
Miniatures can't be patented, covered by copyright, protected by an industrial
design registration or registered as a trademark. If a company tried to
protect them, they would probably have to do each miniature one at
a time - an clearly no-one could afford that (it costs a lot to get any
of these types of protection). I could probably start a company manufacturing
copies of someone else's miniatures, and if I marketed them under a completely
different name, they'd have a hard time stopping me. Of course,
that would be completely unethical and I'd never do it personally - and
a company like GW can hire teams of lawyers to scare people if they need to...
If I were stupid enough to represent my knockoffs as ACTUAL GW miniatures,
they'd have legal grounds to stop me and litigate. But all of
this aside - there is no legal reason at all for you to not cast
miniatures at home for your own use.
As to the ethics - it's up to you to decide if that's cool or not....
> At 03:10 AM 12/6/99 -0500, Adrian Johnson wrote:
[snip]
> Its the legality/ethics of it that may stop you not the quality.
In the United States this is WRONG WRONG WRONG! Miniatures *are* covered by
Title 17 copyrights, copyright infringement can result in fines up to $100,000
for EACH violation, EVEN IF NO MONEY CHANGES HAND. HOW you make the copy is
also immaterial.
*Please* check the current Title 17 copyright laws before handing out bad
advice like this - they're posted online at the US Copyright web site.
> Adrian Johnson wrote:
> The RTV rubber "home casting" kits you see in hobby stores is usually
But
> they don't last all that long. I've seen some make over a dozen
We use RTV rubber moulds (the cost of vulcanising equipment being way beyond
our means) and the results in general are very good. I think we get better
reproduction of detail than many commercial outfits (GZG excluded, of course)
but we pay in other ways. Mould life isn't generally a problem, though -
some
of our moulds are three years old (1000+ castings) and are still going
strong. It pretty much depends on how well made the mould is, how
'mould-friendly' the
master is (ie how many undercuts it has) and how careful you are when removing
the casting from the mould.
> If the figs you are casting are rare/impossible to find, or are really
It depends how many you want. One of our 7" circular moulds could hold maybe
twenty 20mm figures and would cost around £20 (US $30) to make. The cost of
the metal is peanuts (at a wild guess, maybe $0.10 per 20mm figure). If you
wanted
100 figures it would cost you $40, or $0.40 per figure - not a great
deal.
> Its the legality/ethics of it that may stop you not the quality.
Well, well, well.
I took a look at Title 17 of the US Code, 'cause I hate the thought of
"handing out bad advice" like that...
I quote:
"'Pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works' include two-dimensional and
three-dimensional works of fine, graphic, and applied art, photographs,
prints and art reproductions, maps, globes, charts, diagrams, models, and
technical drawings, including architectural plans. Such works shall include
works of artistic craftsmanship insofar as their form but not their mechanical
or utilitarian aspects are concerned: the design of a useful article, as
defined in this section, shall be considered a pictorial, graphic, or
sculptural work only if, and only to the extent that, such design incorporates
pictorial, graphic or sulptural features that can be identified separately
from, and are capable of existing independently of, the utilitarian aspects of
the article."
Later on it describes how the protection works, etc etc etc.
I think this quote is self explanatory: for a number of reasons it is easy to
argue that gaming miniatures ARE covered by this, and therefore:
I WAS COMPLETELY "WRONG WRONG WRONG".
So don't pay attention to what I said, not that you would have anyway...
:-)
If you're in the US, you are busting copyright law if you make your own copies
of a "published" miniature. In Canada, the UK, Australia (which all have
slightly different copyright law) it might be different, but I make no claims
to have even a hint of what may be the case, 'cause I don't want to
get shot down again :-)
Thank you Mark ;-)