Hi all
Big Kudos for Oerjan for his lengthy exposition on launchers disposable, not
disposable, light, not-so-light and all in between. Let me try to sum
up.
1) Real weapons are extremely variable. 2) We don't have a real adequate name
for this general class of
RR/SMAW/whatever.
3) Warheads of equal size and equal generation and equal purpose can be
equivalent in disposable and non-disposable launchers. Vary diameter of
round, generation of manufacture, or purpose and that is out the window. 4)
Reusable weapons tend to have more variety of rounds. 5) Reusable weapons can
have greater range.
6) We aren't talking about a GMS - these are unguided rounds.
So, here are my suggestions:
First, we need a name/description for our weapon. Infantry Anti Vehicle
Rocket is IAVR. It probably includes all forms of poorly (from the
perspective of 2183 mind you!) sighted, cheap, disposable anti-armour or
anti-infantry system. It probably (being 2183) has a warhead that is
either
multirole or can be configured for either role (anti-infantry,
anti-armour,
bunker-busting). It probably doesn't feature incendiary/WP, illum,
smoke, or some of the more interesting possible types of rounds. It probably
requires a different system or at least a different round to be capable of
anti-air
fire.
(Note: One could argue the name suggests this is not a multi purpose round,
but is antivehicular in nature and only peripherally useful versus infantry. I
believe it has D8 impact against infantry (dipersed targets) but I don't have
my rulebook handy. If this is the case, their ought to be an IAPR which
is anti-personel in nature and less deadly (or not at all) verus
vehicles but better vs. infantry. But, for the sake of simplicity, I'd assume
the
IAVR is the multi-role solution.)
Our system, by comparison, will be something which perhaps fills the following
niches: 1) a wee bit larger (more punch) perhaps 2) capable of firing further
3) capable of deploying more varied ammunition types
So, we've seen from what Oerjan sent us that the IAVR of today can reach about
400m in most cases. It seems, based on the fact we use quality bands for an
IAVR, that the IAVR of 2183 can reach up to 600m in the hands of a crack unit.
(Elite range bands!)
So, we need a name and acronym for our new system, regardless of whether it is
a Panzerfaust 3 like system or a RR like the Carl Gustav. How about RAW?
Reusable Assault Weapon. This captures the fact that it is a reusable system,
the fact that it can fire a variety of ammo (rather than being
anti-armour specific) and I think (other than Rocket Assisted Weapon)
this acronym isn't likely overused or confusing.
So, our RAW then needs some characteristics: 1) More punch. I'd be leary of
giving it class 2 damage. 2xD12* makes it a
GMS/L and that is too big I think. I myself have mentioned I favour 2D8*
but purists may prefer to leave it at D12* or actually take the step to 2D12*.
This will give infantry more anti-armour punch. This presumes an anti
armour round. 2) More range. I'd say use 150% of standard range bands. This
puts max range for an elite unit around 900m. But for a regular unit, it's
600m. This is probalby fine. 3) More ammunition types
Anti-Armour D12*, 2D12* or 2D8* impact
Illum Illuminate?" radius (suggestion? I have no idea)
WP/Incendiary D8 Impact vs. vehicle, D12* vs infantry, starts fires
Anti-Infantry Strikes like AP light mortar (3" burst, D12 attack)
Smoke Like light mortar smoke
Here's a question then: How do you (in the SG2 rules if someone figures it is
covered there, or elsewhere otherwise) handle direct fire artillery used
versus infantry targets or another point target like a place on the ground?
How do you
handle deviation? It shouldn't be nearly as bad as off-board fire
(should it?). How do you handle direct engagement of infantry with a howitzer
for example? <Firing over open sights.... sometimes necessary!>
Comments?
> On Wed, 29 November 2000, "Barclay, Tom" wrote:
> Here's a question then:
It's covered there.
Check out "On Table Artillery" on page 47.
In essence, it is handled essentially the same was as off board artillery, but
the observer is the gunner and instead of exceeding his Leadership Value x 2
on the roll of a Quality Die, you just have to beat the Leadership Value. In
othe r words, you place a marker for where the round will hit, roll the
Quality Die, and if the roll exceeds the leadership value the round hits right
there. Other wise, roll for deviation.
In my American Civil War rules I modified this. I made the burst areas very
sma ll and I made the roll equal to Leadership Value x 2. This was to keep
cannon f ire behaving much like it did in the 1800s.
The main difference to the rules was the introduction of cannister rounds in
Ha rdtack (what I call the Civil War rules), with cannister being resolved
just li ke small arms fire.
Note that this system in SG2 does NOT use range bands. It's for artillery.
It's assumed it can hit anywhere on the board. You roll the die to see if the
round hits where you marked, and if not it is deviated.
For your weapon ideas, Tom, I suggest the following:
1) Give the weapons a sensor ability that represents sighting equipment. A WW2
bazooka would have a D4 sensor package, and would be classed as "none". Give
ot hers the typical basic, enhanced, and superior from the game.
2) Mark a spot on the table where the round would hit, just like artillery.
3) Roll Quality and Sensor dice versus a Range Die. This is the same as IAVRs
a nd (essentially the same as) vehicle heavy weapons.
4a) If the roll is made, treat it like an artillery round hitting at that
locat ion. That is, you roll an impact die for every figure within the burst
radius.
4b) If the roll is NOT made, roll for deviation. Then roll an impact die for
ev ery figure within the burst radius of the deviated round.
Note that this WILL give you a weapon that is more nasty against infantry than
IAVRs. Even a miss might have a close enough deviation so as not to matter.
Also, you have a wide range of rounds and weapon systems that can be modelled.
You can play with the following factors: sensor die; impact die; burst radius;
reloading. The last item is based on the artillery rules. The artillery rules
r equire both actions of an activation be used to fire artillery. You may want
to keep this for some weapons (i.e. a bazooka; I seem to recall that it had a
fai rly long reload time) but not others.
> -----Original Message-----
[snip] Let me try to sum up.
> 1) Real weapons are extremely variable.
[Bri] 7) Reusable weapons requires multiple figures to carry the rounds.
You are now into special teams to man the weapon. And will have to keep track
of ammo in the same manner as GMS.
> So, here are my suggestions:
[snip]
> Our system, by comparison, will be something which perhaps fills the
[snip]
> So, we need a name and acronym for our new system, regardless of
this
> acronym isn't likely overused or confusing.
[Bri] RRW? Reusable Recoilless Weapon?
> So, our RAW then needs some characteristics:
[Bri] I would stay with the D12. Any more and you are into the Class-2
Heavy Weapons range.
> 2) More range. I'd say use 150% of standard range bands. This puts max
[Bri] This could work or shift the quality for the range bands up 1. I
can see why a sniper would have range bands greater than a vehicle. They are
in a stable position, they will have taken the time to wait for the best shot
(likely over several turns). But I would not give this weapon
better range bands than a vehicle mounted system. GMS/P only gets
the extended range because the projectile is self-guiding.
> 3) More ammunition types
[Bri] Again, this adds bookkeeping and/or chits to the table to
represent the types of ammo carried.
[snip]
> Comments?
My comments above are marked by [Bri]
I am unsure that the added complication is worth it. I would probably keep
then rolled into the IVAR category.
I would also suggest that the ammo markers be assigned to specific figures (I
suggest this for GMS ammo also). If the figure is lost (wounded or killed),
the ammo is lost). If you allow the recovery of SAW weapons through house
rules, could use the same house rules to recover the ammo.
Those carrying the weapon or ammo should be considered
encumbered (you don't want to drop the ammo) and/or be
limited to close combat weapons). You can't effectively use your assault rifle
while carrying ammo for a heavier weapon in your hand. If you pack the ammo
(dangerous?), you would need an action to unpack it.
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