Hi Everyone,
I know this question has been asked before and will probably be asked again,
but what is the rulling behind firing more than once per turn? I know the
rules state a model cannot fire more than once per turn, but what happens if
you transfer actions using the "Give Orders" action to a squad that has
already activated? Can they take a second fire action that turn?
My group has always played that you can, but before I run my demo I'd like to
know the official rule so that I run the game right.
Thanks for your time.
-Kel...
> NobJobz@aol.com wrote:
I don't know exactly, but the rules state that either a figure or a weapon may
only fire once per turn. We only play with one weapon per figure, so we
haven't come across this distinction yet, but we allow a figure to only fire
once per turn.
Allowing firing of weapons each activation would be too brutal I think. Just
being able to use extra activations for removing suppressions, digging in,
lots of extra movement and an extra close assault gives you plenty of options
without needing extra weapons fire.
> NobJobz@aol.com wrote:
This one occurred to me last night - I started painting my 15mm FSE PA
and noticed that each PA suit has two guns, one in each arm - how would
this be handled? Simply count each figure as having two guns?
> Hi Everyone,
Yes, this one does get asked a lot, and it's my fault for not being clear when
writing the rule. The intention was always that a figure could fire
once PER ACTIVATION, rather than per turn. So if you commmand-reactivate
a squad it CAN take another fire action with weapons that have already fired
in its own normal activation.
As I'm sure you will see in many replies, the official correction to this is
that figures are allowed to fire once per activation.
> -----Original Message-----
[snip question]
> Yes, this one does get asked a lot, and it's my fault for not
So if I understand Jon's answer then I could have a squad fire on it's
activation, use one action from my Platoon Leader to reactivate the same
squad, have them fire again, use my second action from my Platoon leader to
reactivate the same squad again, and have them fire a third time. One squad
fires three times during the same turn. Do I have that right?
In message <E50E940B390AD31192BB0008C7A4E3F203AB0E63@1crp234.corp.disney.com>,
> "Casquilho, Daniel" writes:
[SNIP Extra Stuff]
> > Do I have that right?
But without a house rule then it is true, I could fire the same squad quite a
few times. As you point out, with a company command it could even be more then
three times. (Not sure I like that, will have to talk about adopting a house
rule)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Casquilho, Daniel wrote:
> So if I understand Jon's answer then I could have a squad fire on
AFAIK the same command level can only activate a specific squad once.
Cheers,
> Derk Groeneveld wrote:
> > So if I understand Jon's answer then I could have a squad fire on
That's the way we play here. A command unit can only activate a unit once fer
it's activation. So you could have the platoon commander activate a unit, then
the company commander activate the platoon command who activates the unit. So
the best you could get is 3 activations from a unit.
> On Tue, 27 March 2001, "Casquilho, Daniel" wrote:
> So if I understand Jon's answer then I could have a squad fire on
No!
The rules are VERY clear about Transferring Actions. A squad can only be
activated once with a Transfer Action when a leader unit is activated. A
leader unit can transfer an action to one squad (using up one action) or two
two different squads (using up two actions). In fact, it's nastier than that.
Your Platoon Leader has to announce which squad or squads he is going to
activate BEFORE he attempts to activate either.
So, Squad A activates and fires.
Then, the Platoon leader is activated. He does a transfer action with both of
his actions. He has to announce which squads to transfer to before he does
either. He announces Squad A and Squad B. Squad A is more than 6 inches away,
Squad B is 6" away. Squad B is activated automatically, because of the 6"
range. He makes a communication roll for Squad A. If the roll succeeds, Squad
A can do two actions, and then Squad B can do two actions. If the
commmunication roll for Squad A is failed, too bad. That's one action wasted.
And, since the Transfer Action has to be announced ahead of time, he doesn't
get a second crack at it and Squad B is activated.
Now, let's say there is a company commander on the table! Squad A can fire on
his action. Squad A can have an action transferred to it from the Platoon
Leader. And, the Company Leader can transfer an action to the Platoon Leader,
who can, in turn, transfer an action to Squad A.
> On Tue, 27 March 2001, Andy Cowell wrote:
> http://www.cowell.org/~andy/min/sg2/qna.html:
Strictly speaking, true. But the Transfer Action rules state that the same
squad can not be activated twice during a leader's activation.
> Don't forget your Company command can activate your Platoon leader
There's no need to, unless there is a company commander present.
> On Tue, 27 March 2001, "Casquilho, Daniel" wrote:
> But without a house rule then it is true, I could fire the same squad
No need for a house rule (see my other posts).
> On Tue, 27 March 2001, "Casquilho, Daniel" wrote:
In message <20010327223343.25393.cpmta@c001.zsm.cp.net>, agoodall@canada.com
wr ites:
> On Tue, 27 March 2001, Andy Cowell wrote:
I should probably wait until I have my rules handy, but IIRC there's nothing
to stop platoon leaders from trying to activate squads in
> On Tue, 27 March 2001, Andy Cowell wrote:
> I should probably wait until I have my rules handy, but IIRC there's
Ah! Okay, that's a good point. I rarely run more than a platoon, and when I do
I usually have a scenario rule outlining the chain of command.
Correct, if you had a couple of platoons, you could have both platoon
commanders activating the same squad more than once in a turn. I'd be tempted
to only allow that in the case of a platoon leader squad
destroyed, broken, or routed, but that would be a scenario/house rule.
The rules don't forbid it.
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:40:46 -0800, "Casquilho, Daniel"
> <Daniel.Casquilho@disney.com> wrote:
> Great, so even with your point about the commanders only being
Yep, you'll find it plays a lot different. Only in large games will you find
squads getting activated more than twice. (Technically speaking, they are NOT
activated more than once, but that's sort of how everyone thinks about
it.)
Unlike FT, where a ship is activated once and firing on it is often less
productive than firing on an unactivated ship, in SG you often DO tend to
target a squad that's already fired (and have to, all things being even, due
to the rules for target selection). Choosing what to re-activate and
when to use your command squad to do it is an important decision in SG2.
> At 02:29 PM 3/27/01 -0800, Allan Goodall wrote:
...Can the company commander also transfer an action down to Squad A, or does
that only go down one level?
Just curious, 'cause if that squad is in a particularly
important/tenuous
position I could see that coming up. Was there anything like that in A Grey
Day to Die?
> Aaron Teske wrote:
> ...Can the company commander also transfer an action down to Squad A,
Yes. But he's bypassing one level of command and therefore takes a negative
die shift penalty.
Good evening folks,
> different squads (using up two actions). In fact, it's nastier than
Your Platoon Leader has to announce which squad or squads he is going to
activate BEFORE he attempts to activate either.
Well, it doesn't actually say that anywhere...
What it does say is that "...when a player decides to do something with
any...unit...that unit gets to perform all of the actions it wishes to do for
that turn at that one point, and in effectively any order the player
wishes - the unit may...conduct any other combination of permissible
actions."
I read that to mean that the player is free to take an action, and then based
on the results of that action, take another one. It never says that the player
has to announce what both actions are going to be before undertaking either of
them. Where this gets a bit confusing is in the wording of the paragraph in
the transferring actions section that talks about transferring actions to two
subordinate units. The paragraph above says that if the commo action is
successful, the subordinate unit may
*immediately* take it's new activation (two full actions) - which
suggests before the command unit makes it's second transfer action attempt.
The following paragraph says that the commander may attempt to transfer
actions to two units in the one turn, "though both must be resolved at the
same time".
I always thought that this bit was just an example of what could be done with
transferring actions, not the only allowable method of transferring actions.
In other words, it is saying that if you want to, you can
re-activate two units, and if you try to activate two units, you resolve
both at the same time. It doesn't say, anywhere in that section, that if you
fail to transfer an action to a single unit, you can't try again with the same
unit.
> http://www.cowell.org/~andy/min/sg2/qna.html:
No, it doesn't state that anywhere. It says that the leader may attempt to
activate two units if he wishes, and if he does so, he does it at the same
time. It doesn't say he can't activate the same unit twice.
It only gives maximum limits of what transferring actions can achieve in terms
of the number of units a commander can transfer actions to, in all of the
examples given.
Though I play it that way, and so does just about everyone else - it
makes things silly if the platoon commander can transfer actions to the same
unit over and over... All of a sudden that PA Squad hiding at the back of the
table has sprinted across the board and close assaulted the opposing command
squad...
And that sort of thing reeks of munchkinism.
> I should probably wait until I have my rules handy, but IIRC there's
Allan's limits here are smart ones. It doesn't make much sense to have one
platoon commander activating squads in another platoon.
> From a rules point of view, this depends on strictly you interpret the
The examples are Platoon Commanders activating a squad, or a Company Commander
activating a platoon commander, or a squad in the company. And for the leap
from Company commander to squad, you pay a penalty (drop a die type on the
commo roll for skipping a level in the chain of command).
Strictly speaking, one platoon commander couldn't activate a squad in a
separate platoon unless the company commander and the other platoon commander
were out of action, and the first platoon commander was assuming command of
the whole formation (ie taking over as company commander) OR if one of the
platoons joined the other one... Which is really a bit beyond
the SG rules, as written. With the rules for replacing leaders (pg 10)
someone from within the immediate unit will usually take over (ie within the
squad, or platoon command squad, or company command squad). Unless, of course,
you want to play it *really* realistically, in which case you might want to
have another officer (ie a platoon leader) actually move to take over the
company command squad OR say that he has the ability to assume the functions
of the company commander, and then nominate one of his squad commanders to
take over his platoon.... Again, a bit beyond the usual run of SG games...
So, normally one model in a platoon will assume command of that platoon if the
platoon commander goes down. And so, a platoon commander cannot
transfer an action to the squads outside his platoon - they are never
going
to be a subordinate unit - unless you have one of the examples that
Allan
suggested - such as a platoon command squad being entirely wiped out.
But even then, it would make more sense for one of the other squad commanders
(the senior surviving NCO) to take over the platoon. Merging one platoon and
another would seem to me to be something that would take place outside the
scope of a SG battle, normally.
Anyway, my $0.02...
> On Tue, 27 March 2001, "Casquilho, Daniel" wrote:
Would it clarirfy the situation to simply say that:
"No squad may be activated in one turn more times than there are command
levels present on the table." Where squad leaders = command level 1; platoon
leaders = command level
2;
compay commanders = command level 3, and so on. Thus: if only squads
present on-table, no squad may activate more than once (there is no-one
to transfer actions); if a platoon command is present then a squad may be
activated twice (its own and one re-activation), if company command is
present a single squad may activate up to three times (its own, platoon cmdr
recativation and company cmdr reactivation of platoon cmdr).
> Would it clarify the situation to simply say that:
I like it. I would say this is a good way to address the issue.
> On Tue, 27 March 2001, Aaron Teske wrote:
> ...Can the company commander also transfer an action down to Squad A,
Yes they can, at least that's implied.
However, unless the company commander is within 6" of the squad, he has to
make a communication roll. Communication rolls have a negative modifier (I
think a die shift down on quality, but don't quote me) per level skipped. So,
if the company commander wants to command a squad within 6" that's allowed. If
he wants to command a squad 7" away, he has to make a communication roll, but
at a negative for skipping the platoon commander.
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:57:18 -0500, adrian.johnson@sympatico.ca wrote:
> The
That's a good point.
Our group had a big discussion on this point; I wish I had kept the notes from
that discussion. We felt the phrase "though both must be resolved at the same
time" is meaningless unless you have to declare which squads you will be
transferring the actions to ahead of time.
Now that I think about it, I can see your point. You can declare you are
transferring to one squad, make the communication attempt, and then declare
the next one immediately afterwards, depending on the result.
We played it that you had to declare which squads you were going to declare
the attempt for, and then make the rolls.
I can see, though, the interpretation that you could make one roll, and then
make a second roll based on the result of the first. In fact, I think I found
another phrase on the the same page that gives your interpretation more
credence. The Transfer Action is listed as being able to be "DOUBLED UP, ie:
the SAME action carried out (or attempted) TWICE within one activation, using
one action for each attempt."
Okay, I stand corrected. You don't have to declare your Transfers ahead of
time. However, I think we can all agree that you have to make both rolls
before you do anything with either squad (the "both must be resolved at the
same time" clause). You can't transfer an action, use that squad, and then
decide on the other transfer action. You have to make one Transfer Action
communication roll, then the second, then do something with the squads that
succeeded.