[sg2] Non-lethal/riot weapons

8 posts ยท Nov 2 1998 to Nov 4 1998

From: Brian Burger <yh728@v...>

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:35:15 -0800 (PST)

Subject: [sg2] Non-lethal/riot weapons

I know this topic has been kicked around a bit, in the past while, as I
remember someone (no idea who) saying they had non-lethal/riot wpn rules
in the 'very very rough draft' stage of writing. Just wondering if those had
progressed at all, or if anyone else had any interesting ideas...

I'm kicking around ideas for urban scenarios, with cops, troops, rioters, and
others all going at it...

I've also read, in the past, of (hypothetical) non-lethal area denial
weaponry - instead
of mines, you spread really, really sticky goo to trap people and vehicles, or
really slippery stuff to slow people down, make them crash, etc. There was, I
think, also talk of things (chemicals, bacteria,
something) that ate rubber quickly - your jeep drives through stuff like
this, and 2 klicks down the road your tires and hoses collapse into
powder...Actually, to simulate this in SG, have 'mines' with
rubber/plastic eating ability. All 'attacks' count as
suspension/mobility
kills, for all wheeled, most tracked and some GEV vehicles.

All of the above has both military and law-enforcement applications, of
course. Could give 'stopping an attacker in his tracks' a more literal
meaning...

(I recall reading, somewhere, of Hungarians, during the 1956 Soviet invasion,
putting soap on paved roads to destroy traction for all sorts of vehicles,
including tanks. This strikes me as a bit unlikely, but you
never know. Anyone else heard this one, or can confirm/deny it?)

From: ScottSaylo@a...

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:11:50 EST

Subject: Re: [sg2] Non-lethal/riot weapons

Old fuel oil or lubricants spilled on the road will stop wheeled vehicles
dead. It's best used on an outward curve coming steeply down (or up) hill.
This was an imrpovised tactic used widely in may brush-fire wars and by
some resistance units in World War II.

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:21:49 -0500

Subject: Re: [sg2] Non-lethal/riot weapons

Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty:

> I know this topic has been kicked around a bit, in the past while, as

Me, and they are mostly done except I haven't been able to get the Mob Tactics
part done. If I forget that, I can probably release immediately.

> I've also read, in the past, of (hypothetical) non-lethal area denial

I have some rules for these in there.

> (I recall reading, somewhere, of Hungarians, during the 1956 Soviet

Don't know. I went on an advanced driver training course by Labatt's and they
used a Dupont clear polymer 'snot' as they called it but it was so slippery
your vehicle seemed like it was on glare ice on a parking lot. One small
barrell would probably cover an area about 100x50 ft. (30mx20m maybe).

Brian, if you want the non-lethal weapons sent directly to you, let
me know. Mail me offlist.
/************************************************

From: Colfox <monty88@f...>

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:10:45 -0600

Subject: Re: [sg2] Non-lethal/riot weapons

----------
> From: Brian Burger <burger00@camosun.bc.ca>

<snip>
> (I recall reading, somewhere, of Hungarians, during the 1956 Soviet

Very true. My source book on this is in storage right now, so I can't quote it
for you, but this did happen.

The one instance I remember was when the Soviets were attacking along a road
up a hill. The Hungarians smeared grease, butter, oil, etc (anything slippery)
on the curves of the road. As the tanks lost traction, the defenders would run
out with molotov cocktails and take it out.

A very ingenious, valiant effort in a losing cause.

BTW, on a technical note, it wasn't the "Soviet invasion". The Soviets had
already been in control, but the Hungarians had revolted
successfully--largely because the local army forces were Hungarians and
joined the revolt rather than shoot on their own countrymen. When the Sovs
came back in a few days later, the troops were asians. After this, the Sovs
didn't use native troops for garrisons any more.

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:48:41 -0500

Subject: Re: [sg2] Non-lethal/riot weapons

Colfox spake thusly upon matters weighty:

> BTW, on a technical note, it wasn't the "Soviet invasion". The

Now that was one that was learned in the time of the Romans. Same reason
Bejing used out of towners to deal with the Tianamen situation. You can't
trust locals to shoot their own folk.

Tom.

From: Nyrath the nearly wise <nyrath@c...>

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 18:10:27 -0500

Subject: Re: [sg2] Non-lethal/riot weapons

> Brian Burger wrote:

I hadn't heard of them using soap, but I did read about them using empty gas
cylinders from welding torches,

From: Chen-Song Qin <cqin@e...>

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:27:19 -0700 (MST)

Subject: Re: [sg2] Non-lethal/riot weapons

> I hadn't heard of them using soap, but I did read about

Well, according to my old history textbook, they also put dishes upside down
on streets so that the Soviets thought they were mines. This actually stopped
armored columns, especially when the Hungarians shot at combat engineers
coming up to clear the "mines".

> One group of Hungarians also managed to drop a high voltage

Now they didn't pay attention to their electricity safety class, did they?
"Don't touch any metal parts when you're inside a vehicle..."

> But mainly they would have one brave soul run up to the

That's a mighty brave soul. And those are mighty stupid souls who advance
tanks into a city without infantry support so some bozo can run up to them.

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 09:04:33 -0800

Subject: Re: [sg2] Non-lethal/riot weapons

> Chen-Song Qin wrote:

> Well, according to my old history textbook, they also put dishes

Read about this from someone who did it in recent issue of military history
magazine.

> > One group of Hungarians also managed to drop a high voltage

What's not metal in a tank?

> > But mainly they would have one brave soul run up to the

Russians aren't that bright. It took them years to get that combined
arms stuff down (Finland in 1939-40, Barbarossa 1941) and then after the
Great Patriotic War, they got rid of all their experienced enlisted men and a
lot of their experienced officers. Combined arms is something that takes
practice, and the Russians just don't understand it. They did the same thing
in Chechnya and the first half of Afghanistan.