OK,
I'm guessing that what we are trying to acheive is not exactly a set of
scenarios but a separate set of cards for the "Attacker" and the "Defender".
Some of these will have set terrain features eg Bridge or Road Junction or
Building Complex. Whilst the remainder of the table terrain will be random or
chosen by both players in a similar fashion say DBM.
The cards can't be so specific that the sides objectives are mutually
exclusive; such as the Attacker conducting a raid and the Defender withdraws
avoidig contact!
So here's some likley card ideas. A points system will be required for this if
players aren't familiar with each others forces. Attacker Defender ratios
should be around 4:3 (or for the brave Defender 3:2). All games are assumed to
be played on a 6'x4' table and games last 12
turns or 2 1/2 hours. The mission outlines for ATK and DEF are suitable
for both DS and SG. The points forces will be different.
I'm still working on points and victory conditions for both sides.
Comments?????
Owen
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ATK
A1 RECON - Identify all enemy units on the table then
withdraw from own baseline. Defender receives 1d4(?) dummy markers per 4
squads.
A2 RAID - A quick strike to take out a key scientific
outpost. Place 4-6 small buildings towards Defenders end of table.
Defender is unaware of signficance of the building.
A3 RECOVERY - Place 4 markers at Defenders end of board
within 24" of baseline. One of these is a vital piece of equipment of injured
aircrew in need of recovery.
A4 ADVANCE - Attacker must move his forces off the
Defender table edge. Light resistance to be dealt with, larger forces should
be bypassed; left for main body.
A5 CLEAR - Advance to clear all enemy from two/three key
features at Defenders end of board.
A6 ADVANCE GUARD - Attacker must quickly advance to
seize a
key bridge/river crossing at Defenders end of board.
A7 SECURITY - Attacker must move to a position at the
Defenders side of board (just past halfway?) and hold.
DEF
D1 DEFEND - Set up a defensive position no closer than
18" from own baseline and deny the enemy the ground.
D2 DELAY - Start in a position in the centre 12" square
of board. Hold for 5 turns then move all units off own base line in good order
(not Routed or Broken).
D3 COUNTER ATTACK - Place 1d6 dummy markers on Defender
half of board. Defenders forces come on from side of board 5d12" from
baseline on turn 2+(1d4).
D4 STANDING PATROL - Start in centre of board NOT in
defensive position. 1/3 of force should move to Attacker table edge and
return to Patrol Base before Defender may withdraw off base line.
D5 AMBUSH - Hidden placement of forces (requires a map)
plus 1d6 dummy markers as decoys. Inflict max casualtieson Attacker and
withdraw off own baseline. May deploy anywhere up to 24" from Attacker table
edge.
D6 RECON - Move to within 2 Range bands of every
Attacker unit on board. Alternately take at least one prisoner and withdraw to
own baseline.
D7 RELIEF - Place 1/3 points value of forces in 12"
square at table centre. May not withdraw until start of Turn 6, may not use
artillery or air support but may include mines and 1d6 dummy markers anywhere
on board. Remainder come on table at start of Turn 5.
Glover, spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> OK,
Why? See my comments below.
> So here's some likley card ideas. A points system will
In any case, wouldn't hurt for victory conditions. See my comments below.
> Attacker Defender ratios should be around 4:3 (or for the brave
Of course, if Defender well emplaced with CDMs, arty, etc, then 3:1 or more
might not be outrageous.
. All games are assumed to be played on a 6'x4' table and games last
12 turns or 2 1/2 hours.
Let scenario determine game length and let actual table size determine table
size.
The mission outlines for ATK and DEF are suitable for both DS and SG. The
points forces will be different.
Although DS2 values aren't too bad, except that one should probably about
double the value of infantry. If one does that, the SG2
vehicle/infantry balance might be close to right. Or maybe more than
double.
> I'm still working on points and victory conditions for
Another view:
I've come up with 26 mission cards. Each of which lists a mission
that one player must perform (example Casevac). It lists 1-3 options
for the objectives of that player. In order to avoid having the same scenario
objectives each time, but maintain compatible objectives for
a battle, I've included the opponents objectives (a list of 1-5
options depending on mission). That way each card will really
represent from 3 to 10 sets of objectives-pairs that should be
compatible. And with 26 cards, that represents over 200 possible missions.
Each would have a range of possible natures for an objective too. So the
Patrol Card might have on it Player A: Objectives: 1. Recon Enemy 2. Enage and
Destroy Enemy Player B: Objectives: 1. Pass Through AO 2. Patrol Area (Recon)
3. Patrol Area (Engage and Destroy) 4. Special Operation (drop off, pickup,
ELINT, sabotage, etc) Terrain Options: (roll 1d10) 1. Military Installation 2.
Civilian Installation 3. Transportation Artery 4. Geographic Feature 5.
Population Centre 6. Special Objective (for Special Operation)
7+Normal Terrain
Now, each set of objectives would come with a Force Factor. (This is the
points system Owen was talking about). Like Owen, I still haven't got it
figured yet, but it would give a relative idea. For example, lets say we drew
the card above, Player A's objective was Patrol (Recon Enemy) and Player B's
was Pass Through the Area. It will likely be a meeting encounter. Let's say
for terrain we roll a 5, Population Centre (on the PC table, we generate a
village). So the centre of our board, however big, is made up of a 2x2
village. The other 1x1 sections are laid down randomly from our Terrain Deck
for Temperate Lands (a mix of fields, scrub, light woods, heavy woods, swamps,
etc). Because player A is a recon force, his force factor was (lets say) a 5.
Because player B is a force advancing from one board
edge to the other, he could be just about any size - say a range of
5-10. Note that it is possible in some cases for BOTH players to
satisfy victory conditions! But if A had Recon (Search and Destroy), where he
might have a Force Factor of 8 (maybe each pip corresponds to a four man squad
or a small vehicle?), when he encountered B he'd engage and B would be trying
to get across the board. And all that from one card. WIth variance of
missions, and geography, one card can produce lots of scenarios and you don't
have to worry about incompatible objectives (both forces trying to retreat).
Further, game length could be buit into objectives. The transit objective
might say 6 turns to cross the board. The Recon objective might say 12. So if
player B isn't done his transit by turn 6, he loses. If A isn't done his area
recon by 12, he loses. Here, both players can lose too!.
> D7 RELIEF - Place 1/3 points value of forces in 12"
square
> at table centre. May not withdraw until start of Turn 6, may not use
You had some good ideas, which I've absconded with for my cards. Your solution
is workable I believe, if a tad simpler than mine. I'm going to proceed with
mine I think, and I'll post the results and we can all see what we think. I
think I'd be interested to see your points system, Owen.
Here was some points I took a cut at. Vehicle: DS2 rating Infantry man:
Untrained 1
Green 3
Regular 5
Veteran 7
Elite 9
SAW +2 or 3
PPG +5
GMS/P +7 to 10
GMS/P-Air +10 to 15
HMG/Rotary MG/Gauss MG +10 to +15
This number was multiplied by 1 +/- a factor based on
fatigue, motivation, and armour
Armour: Poor - .1 (None) D4
Good 0 D6 or better
PA +.1 to .2
Fatigue
Tired -.1
Fresh 0
Motivation
High +.1
Low -.1
So.... for example a unit of 5 Regulars with rifles, and 1 with a SAW
would be (5x5 for the rifles)+(1x5+2 for the saw gunner). That total
of 32 would then be multiplied by a factor. Let's say they had
partial armour, were fresh, and were regular motivation (1+0+0+0).
That squad would be worth 32. In contrast, a squad of Elite PA (four members,
3 with IPW, one with PG) with high motivation and heavy
armour who were also fresh would be worth ((3x9) + (1x9+5)) *
(1+.2+0+.1) = 41 * 1.3 = 53 points. These numbers seem to reflect
the balance. A squad of green riflemen (6 men with rifles, poor
armour, low motivation, who have no armour and are fresh - militia
for example) would be worth (6x3) * (1-.1+0-.1) = 18 x 0.8 = 15
points.
This was my first cut at it. It may be the balance vis a vis vehicles
is not right and that one may have to multiply these first-guess
values by 2. SG2 is meant to be an infantry game, and a costing structure
which rates vehicles so expensively will certainly help to deter their
presence somewhat.
<apologies for incredible length>
Tom.
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> Thomas Barclay wrote:
> > Attacker Defender ratios should be around 4:3 (or for the brave
IMHO, you need 3:1 to take down a skilled defender in a hasty defence, and 5:1
or more for a deliberate defence.
Nar John, you are reading this before the points systems come out. The
defenses will be costed as well, thus giving the FORCE ratios, after deducting
the cost for defences, around the 3:1 to 5:1 that you are referring to.
Just be patient Grasshopper
[quoted original message omitted]