Another interesting event in last weekend's game was a fluke shot against my
PA squad. One of the defending FSE infantry suqads fired a GMS/P
against my PA squad.
It was unclear if this was allowed or not, but we assumed it was appropriate
and rolled against the range, modified by cover. The missile managed to hit
and (due to good rolls) cause not one but TWO casualties.
Was this correct? Should we have used the ruling for heavy weapons against
infantry (d8 impact for shrapnel as opposed to the d12 of the missile)
instead?
Tom
> Another interesting event in last weekend's game was a fluke shot
There was discussion about this a year or so ago. Missiles can be fired at
infantry, no problem--this already happens IRL. IIRC they can use the
shrapnel vs a squad *or* the full IMP vs a single individual--eg if
you're firing at a Power Armor squad.
> There was discussion about this a year or so ago. Missiles can be
That makes sense to me. So if firing against an individual, I assume you
simply discard any casualties past the first but take suppression as normal?
Tom
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:54:35 -0400, Thomas Pope
<tpope@exchange.cs.cmu.edu> wrote:
> Another interesting event in last weekend's game was a fluke shot
The rules as written are clear that you can't fire GMS at dispersed targets
(infantry and PA), just point targets.
I have playtested house rules where GMS could fire at PA as if they were size
1 point targets, and that worked out rather well. Also, given some things that
happened in Gulf War II, it looks like -- realistically -- you can use
GMS against infantry.
The problem is that the GMS mechanics assume that a GMS is firing at a target
with sensors. The GMS mechanics really need to be overhauled to be realistic.
If you're not up to overhauling them, I suggest one of the following:
1) Give infantry D4 ECM but shifting it up due to cover and IP (in other words
they don't have any ECM against missiles but they are hard for the firing unit
to lock on due to their size and the ability to easily hide);
or 2) give infantry their sensor die as ECM, probably what you did for PA.
The impact against infantry should be D8, the same as heavy weapons firing at
infantry.
What you really need to do is to treat GMS as an area effect weapon. Let's
face it, you're not going to fire a missile into a single figure's guts but
into the squad's area. So, try this for option 3): nominate a point where you
want the GMS to hit, roll Quality Die + Guidance Die versus D4 to hit
that piece of terrain. If you hit, treat the weapon as Impact D8 for all
targets within a 3" burst diameter, just as though it were a small artillery
piece. If
the missile misses, deviate the shot as per the on-table artillery rules
(D12 deviation direction, D8 deviation distance).
I suggest using this option 3 for infantry and PA, with my GMS house rule to
target individual PA as well.
> Was this correct? Should we have used the ruling for heavy weapons
I would have, but then again the rules state GMS can't hit infantry. ;-)
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:29:48 -0400, Thomas Pope
<tpope@exchange.cs.cmu.edu> wrote:
> That makes sense to me. So if firing against an individual, I assume
Nope. Chris (Laserlight) and I playtested this last year. What we did was
treated the PA as a point target with class 1 armour (D12) all around. Light
PA, though, would have D10 armour.
If the PA was hit, a minor hit had the GMS rolling it's base impact and if it
was a major hit it rolled twice it's base impact, as though the PA was a small
vehicle. I don't know if I gave die shifts up for cover or IP status, but I
don't think I did. At any rate, I don't think it was that necessary. Yes,
firing a GMS/L or H is going to make PA go "poof" real easy. But since a
launcher only has 3 or 4 shots, you'd better hope that all you had to deal
with was a single squad of PA with those missiles...
> Nope. Chris (Laserlight) and I playtested this last year. What we
Almost 2 yrs ago IIRC, but I don't think we actually used the rule, just
talked about it. I certainly shot at PA several times with other weapons but
IIRC I was holding on to my GMS to use against vehicles.
I have playtested house rules where GMS could fire at PA as if they were size
1 point targets, and that worked out rather well. Also, given some things that
happened in Gulf War II, it looks like -- realistically -- you can use
GMS against infantry.
I would tend to agree with that however I would down grade it's effectiveness
on standard infantry. I see it like this, the best possible result your hoping
for is a suppression.........because if your firing a GMS at an infantry squad
you have no other options open to you....)
To "Me" PA should be considered as viable a target as say a jeep would be for
using a GMS. After all which one can hurt you worse....) The reality being
today if I see a huge guy shaped thing tarring through a friendly squad and
heading my way...It's going to eat a TOW. I'll sort through the Geneva
niceties afterwards...)
What you really need to do is to treat GMS as an area effect weapon. Let's
face it, you're not going to fire a missile into a single figure's guts but
into the squad's area. So, try this for option 3): nominate a point where you
want the GMS to hit, roll Quality Die + Guidance Die versus D4 to hit
that piece of terrain. If you hit, treat the weapon as Impact D8 for all
targets within a 3" burst diameter, just as though it were a small artillery
piece. If
the missile misses, deviate the shot as per the on-table artillery rules
(D12 deviation direction, D8 deviation distance).
I like the above idea.....it's workable.
> At 3:52 PM -0500 6/24/03, Allan Goodall wrote:
Usually, you're firing at the point where the infantry man was last seen.
Basically, you declare the window, building, fighting position, etc as a
target and fire it at that.
Piats were fired at church towers to take out snipers. Milans against 50 cal
positions in the Falklands, etc.
> The rules as written are clear that you can't fire GMS at
Do you have a page reference for that? On my reading the other night I didn't
find that explicitly stated, though I'm sure I could have missed it.
Thanks for the other recommendations, I especially like the idea of treating
PA as small vehicles.
Tom
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:12:37 -0400, Thomas Pope
<tpope@exchange.cs.cmu.edu> wrote:
> Do you have a page reference for that? On my reading the other night I
Actually it's not specifically mentioned. The closest is on page 40 when it
says that GMS can't be fired in support of a small-arms fire resolution.
The rest of the rules for GMS in that page, though, seem to assume that you
are only firing at a point target. It's not a heavy weapon, so the rules for
heavy weapons fire at infantry don't apply.
I can't find anywhere forbidding GMS to fire on infantry, however nowhere do
the rules give the mechanics for doing so!
> Thanks for the other recommendations, I especially like the idea of
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:35:21 -0400, "Laserlight"
<laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:
> Almost 2 yrs ago IIRC, but I don't think we actually used the rule,
We used the rule, you just didn't hit much of anything. *L* There were at
least two shots fired at PA that didn't kill them (I seem to remember one even
hit but didn't penetrate).
And it may have started 18 months ago, but no earlier than that. Geez, that
long ago???
> Almost 2 yrs ago IIRC, but I don't think we actually used the rule,
> We used the rule, you just didn't hit much of anything. *L* There were
> And it may have started 18 months ago, but no earlier than that. Geez,
I'm pretty sure we were playing that while I was at Jubilee Tech, so
couldn't have been any later than 10/01. Tempus fugit, eh?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:51:51 -0400, "laserlight@quixnet.net"
> <laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:
> I'm pretty sure we were playing that while I was at Jubilee Tech, so
*L* You're remembering wrong... I ran it after I moved down here to Louisiana,
and that was in 11/01. I just checked the files. I created the map 11
months
ago, on July 23, 2002. The game ended 10/24/2002, and I finished the AAR
6 days later.