[SG2/DS2] Infantry Walker design rules

Greetings, folks!

I was looking through the DS2 design rules last night in order to convert some
of the Heavy Gear designs over for a possible future SG2 game, and found that
Gears are not possible to design using the DS2 system.

Here's what a basic Hunter/Jaeger Gear should look like in DS2 terms:

Hunter Heavy Gear (infantry walker size 1)

> Greetings, folks!

Yes - ignore the design system!!!
The DS design and points systems are there for keeping things reasonably level
when playing games within generic backgrounds. If you want to simulate a
SPECIFIC background such as the Heavy Gear one, then feel free to bend the
rules enough to allow it, with the usual caveat of agreeing it with those you
will play with. And that's [OFFICIAL]....!

:-)

> At 08:50 AM 2/2/2000 +1000, you wrote:
Owen G

Not quite. The main "base weapons" in Heavy Gear consist of 3 grades of
Autocannon and 3 grades of Rocket Packs (yes, I know there there are Very
Light and Very Heavy versions :-)

Here's the relative base damage multipliers:

LAC: x8 MAC: x10 HAC: x12

  LRP:  x8, -1 Accuracy
  MRP: x16, -1 Accuracy
  HRP: x20, -1 Accuracy

The LAC (Medium AutoCannon) is reasonably equivalent to a Class 1 RFAC, while
the HAC is probably close to a Class 2. This puts the LRP in Class 1 damage
range, the MRP in Class 2 or 2.5, and the HRP up near Class 3.
Considering that the Gears that are capable of field an HRP/24 or HRP/48
are in the "Heavy Fire Support" category, this is not unreasonable.

Unfortunately, *all* of the Gears are properly Class 1 sized. The small scout
gears tend to be around 4 meters tall, the "trooper" Gears are 4.3 meters and
around 8500 kg, and the "fire support" Gears top out around 5.1 meters tall
and 12,000 kilos. Striders bump up into the Size 2 or Size 3 category.

Hmm, I am wondering if the SLAM shouldn't really be a Multi Launcher Pack in
Stargrunt terms? Note a limited exposure to Heavy Gear....

Owen G

> -----Original Message-----

Using the MLP works fine for the rocket packs, see:
http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/sg/walker.htm

The one thing about multiple weapons on a size 1 walker is they have a low
survival rate, even against small arms fire. As soon as they get targetted by
a heavy weapon, it's goodbye.

Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
[pirates] Prince Rupert Raspberry; Base Commander

> -----Original Message-----
Owen
> G

In a message dated 2/1/00 3:03:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> mshurtleff1@uswest.net writes:

> engine type: CFE

Since the DS2 rules specifically state that paying for a FGP just means you
are paying for a system that generates LOTS of power and not necessarily a
fusion plant, I don't see a problem here--just pay the points for a FGP.

> armor: class 1

Just call the SLAM an APSW (which, since it would be fired if the other APSW
wasn't or vice versa). Then you could just say that the last two systems (SLAM
and APSW) are just a single APSW. Sort of. After all, APSW doesn't necessarily
mean just an MHG...

> As you can see, the engine type and weaponry doesn't fit in the

Them's my $.02.

Rob

> At 02:30 PM 2/1/00 -0800, MWS wrote:
Owen G
> Not quite. The main "base weapons" in Heavy Gear consist of 3 grades
[snip]

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find my old conversions for the Gears, which
were admittedly for SGII since I was going to use the RAFM minis
there...
though, having purchased some of the VOTOMs-style 'bots from Jon a while
back, I should look at doing DSII versions.

Anyway, I got away from trying to use exact conversions from HG to
DS/SG;
instead I "fuzzed out" the damage multipliers a bit. Thus, LACs (25mm
weapons, from the weapons description) are RFAC/1s, while MACs (30mm)
and
HACs (40mm) are both RFAC/2s.  Within SGII, I was using various numbers
of the ML (multiple launcher) packs to simulate the rocket pods (Owen also
mentioned this), though I think I did go with a SLAM for the HRP -- at
least in Dirtside. ^_^;

Obviously, I hadn't plotted this whole thing out, but I *did* have a good
number of notes I wish t'eck I could find right now....

> Unfortunately, *all* of the Gears are properly Class 1 sized. The

Oh yeah, that's the other thing -- "infantry walkers" in DSII are 3-4 m
tall, so I'd say the fire support gears (Griz, Spit, etc.) are properly size
2. This also gives them the benefit of the extra armor level to reflect their
toughness. I think I was going to use size 3 for the various striders just to
keep the classifications... if not the proper relative armor levels. Just
'cause you have the capacity doesn't mean you have to stuff it with weapons!

(Hmm, I guess this would serve as a good starting point for rewriting my
aforementioned notes... though that'll also take away from my GZG ECC III
prep.  Augh! ^_^;; )

First off, make the Hunter a Size Class 2. The gears a huge. Class 1 is a
really big power armour and the Hunter is quite a bit bigger.

that's how I interpreted it. Keep it's armour at Class 1 to scale it to the
smaller ones if you like.

Eli

> From: -MWS- <mshurtleff1@uswest.net>

Small vehicles seem to be the most survivable in most DSII games I have played
simply because they are hard to hit with guns. In sufficient numbers they do
quite well. One of our regular gamers uses size 1 combat walkers to great
effect. A good solution is missiles to counter the little buggers as they
usually stay on the cheap side and avoid heavy ECM usage.

Mike

Michael Miserendino Senior Software Engineer Lincoln Re