I just got DS2 and FB2 - thanks KR! You're a pal, as usual, good service
-
now if I could only convince the BorderLeaches(TM) to stop asking for piles of
cash every time I do this, it'd be much less painful.
After browsing DS2 (going to have to search for some net resources now), I
mused upon the interface between DS2 and SG2 as it pertains to articulation.
Note the articulation I typically use in well trained regs or vets in SG2 is
Platoon Leader Platoon Sgt GMS Team (2 men) GMS Team (ditto) Rifle Squad 1,
Fireteam Alpha (4 men with rifles) Rifle Squad 1, Fireteam Beta (3 men with
rifles, SAW)... up to Rifle Squad 3.
That's about 30 guys without other specialists and gives good use of FP3
weapons systems and flexibility with the squad sizes. It also gives good
operational capability for the GMS Teams.
.... Imagine my surprise when reading DS2, I note that infantry rifle
elements are 4-5 guys, and GMS teams are 2-3 guys, etc. It almost
exactly matches my articulation model. Gee, does this not make using forces in
both games exceedingly simple from the same TO&E? Oh yes it does!
So, for those who play both, this looks even more sensible.
Just my last 0.02 on the matter.
On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:09:16 -0400, "Barclay, Tom" <tomb@bitheads.com>
wrote:
> I just got DS2 and FB2 - thanks KR! You're a pal, as usual, good
You know, I don't really mind paying the tax. Okay, maybe that's a bit
inaccurate, but I can at least understand it. It's the damned $5 handling
charge the customs folk hit you with that peeves me! I understand that someone
is fighting this. I thought, personally, that it went against GATT and NAFTA
because it's essentially a $5 tariff.
(For those that don't know, if you are Canadian and mail order anything and
the shipment is deemed to be taxable, you end up paying the federal Goods and
Services Tax. If you're in Ontario, you also get to pay the Ontario provincial
tax. In Quebec and Atlantic Canada, they have a "harmonized" tax that equals
GST and the provincial tax. If you have to pay this, you're charged a handling
fee of $5.
Note, you do not pay this if the package is not taxable. That is, if it's a
gift or a sample you don't pay it.
(You don't pay it if you're package is sufficiently small in cost that it gets
skipped by Customs. Note this isn't a duty, this is a handling fee of $5 plus
taxes. For some reason, shipments from Britain are less likely to get hit.
Shipments that can fit in a mailbox, like the way Jon at GZG ships individual
figures, are less likely to get stuck than a box of Geo-Hex's blister
packs.)
> Note the articulation I typically use in well trained regs or vets in
I tend to run a more "traditional" (i.e. as written in SG2) articulation of
Platoon command team of 4, and squads of 6 to 8. I've played with independent
GMS teams, but usually in groups of two GMS launchers and two soldiers for
support.
> .... Imagine my surprise when reading DS2, I note that infantry rifle
That's quite interesting, actually! Especially since it doesn't fit with Jon's
articulation model in the SG2 rules. He lists squads of being between 6 and 8.
I wonder, then, how you deal with NSL troops? If the NAC TO&E lists squads of
8 troops which can be broken into two fireteams of 4, how do you break down
the canon NSL squads of 6 troops? Two of three seems a bit too small, but one
of 6 is a bit big. NSL squads tend to have two support weapons: a SAW and
either a plasma gun or a GMS. Split the squad into a fireteam of 4 with a SAW
and a fireteam of 2 with the other support weapon?
> So, for those who play both, this looks even more sensible.
It certainly does...
Hi Alan,
Actually i think in most cases you'll find a reasonable fit between Jon's DS
and SG if you remeber the APSW team. So, for the NSL how about a 4 man Rifle
Team and a 2 man APSW team (Tom didn't raise these in his discussion but think
these might best cover the PPG aspect in DS)?
Owen G
> -----Original Message-----
> That's quite interesting, actually! Especially since it doesn't
On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:44:20 +1000, "Owen Glover"
<oglover@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> Actually i think in most cases you'll find a reasonable fit between
Owen, good idea! I'm going to have to try doing this in my SG2 games.
Of course, I think from our earlier comments Tom and I realize that SG2's
morale system is too forgiving. This is especially the case with small units.
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2000, Allan Goodall wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:44:20 +1000, "Owen Glover"
<oglover@bigpond.net.au>
> wrote:
We have a morale house rule that we call Cascading Morale, used in both DS2 &
SG2.
Basically, if you fail a test, you test again at one TL less. You keep testing
until you either pass, fall three Morale Levels, or do a
+0 test.
For example, let's say that a Confident squad has their leader killed.
Test #1 at +3 - they fail enough to drop on level - CO to ST
Test #2 at +2 - fail, by another level - ST to SH
Test #3 at +1 - finally pass - squad stays at SH
If they'd failed either of the first two tests by enough to drop them TWO
levels (CO to SH at Test #1) and the next test(#2) also dropped them by 1
level (SH to BR) then you stop testing at +2, because the three-level
drop is the max allowed.
We've been using it in both Ds2 and SG2 for a couple of years now, and we
think it works. Units will actually run away now, not always die to the
last vehicle/man.
There are another couple of gaps in SG2's morale/TL checks, but
Cascading Morale at least makes the tests we do run more dangerous. It's
actually only one more level drop than you can get under the stock rules, but
there's a big diffrence between SH & BR. Besides, rolling repeated bad dice
(failing three morale rolls running by only one level) affects the PLAYER'S
Confidence Level, too!
The full version of our Cascading Morale rules can be seen at
<http://warbard.iwarp.com/ds2rules.html>
> Allan Goodall wrote:
> .... Imagine my surprise when reading DS2, I note that infantry
It only "doesn't fit" if you equate the DSII element with a "squad", which is
not what Jon&Mike intended. Read "Unit Integrity", DSII p.23, the note in
brackets:
"Note that if two or three infantry elements form a "squad", eg: the occupants
of asingle APC or MICV, these elements should remain in
base-to-base contact at all times ..."
IOW, a 8- or 6-man squad breaks down quite nicely in 2x4-man or 1x2-man
specialist + 1x4-man rifle elements.
Regards,
On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:59:44 -0700 (PDT), Brian Burger
<yh728@victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
> We have a morale house rule that we call Cascading Morale, used in both
I'm not sure I like the idea of a unit going from Confident to Broken in one
test.
My house rules are on my own web site:
http://www.vex.net/~agoodall/sg2.htm
My rules change the conditions of one morale check and add one additional
condition for checking morale. It works well.
Essentially we've come to the same conclusion. Our answers to it are
different, but we have filled the gap in the SG2 morale system.
What's missing, though, is morale for higher echelons on the tabletop. There
are no rules for a platoon in SG2 or a company in DS2 losing morale based on
individual units breaking. Historically, smaller units routing can result in a
cascade of other units running. An extreme situation is the routing of the
Union XI Corps at Chancellorsville. It was a cascade of morale that caused the
corps to run. Again, an extreme example, but not something that can be done in
SG2.
Grain of salt: I own DS2 but have not read the SG2 rules, much less played.
Partially, that may be the very generic structure of the system. Much of those
situations are based on the historical nature of the army involved (i.e., the
Xi corps itself and the overall Union Armies of the theater.)
Also, it may be a game construction decision to KISS the game.
Further is the frequency factor (partially history specific) of such events. A
platoon breaks the next door platoon might break the next one down the line,
under differing conditions might not break but just 'bend
the line' and hold - preventing a cascade effect.
That said, anytime (other then surrounded, with no where to go and
surrender is perceived worse then death - as 7th Cav was at Greasy
Grass)
there is a problem (IMO - in some cases possibly not) if the 'lone
figure' is the victor regularly.
Gracias,
Gracias, Triphibious/Glenn
Triphibious Marines = Nektons. Not all Frogs are French, or even Human!
Nektons, be all the Marine you can be! Resistance is EVERYTHING!
On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:17:13 -0400 Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
writes:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:59:44 -0700 (PDT), Brian Burger