SG2, a little help with some weapon statistics

Hello, I was just wondering if anyone could help me come up with the
statistics for a couple of weapons in SG2 terms. I for the life of me just
can't think up anything for them, so I thought I'd as you guys. The weapons
are:

.75 caliber assault rifle with HE rocket propelled rounds A laser assault
rifle

Thanks in advance for any help

Fairly large caliber... I'd make it FP: 3, I: d12,

Laser assault rifle is already in the book: FP:2, I: d8.

Neath Southern Skies -http://home.pacific.net.au/~southernskies/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
[pirates] Prince Rupert Raspberry; Base Commander

> -----Original Message-----

> up anything for them, so I thought I'd as you guys. The weapons

I'd go with something like FP:2, impact d12, or maybe d8x2... it probably
doesn't fire fast, but sure packs a whallop when it hits. Maybe even d12*

Laser is in the book.

Hi Jade,

Although Brendan has already suggested FP3/ImpD12 perhaps you are
looking at something a little over the top in small arms...

.75 Cal is somewhere around; or just under 20mm. IMHO this really falls into a
Support Weapon category rather than Assault Rifle....the ammunition alone is
going to be monstrously heavy! I'm presuming the Rocket propelled refers to
the round that the AR fires and not some kind of additional Grenade launcher?

You might even want to consider this Assault Rifle in terms of a D6 or D8
rather than a set FP.

In what sort of context are you fitting your weapons? Is it from a Fiction
background you are playing out in Stargrunt?

Cheers,

Owen

[quoted original message omitted]

> A laser assault

Where? The only personal laser in the book is a sniping rifle. There are
specific mentions that in the SG2 universe lasers have too low a rate of fire
to be used as assault rifles.

Well, I'm a big fan of the Warhammer 40K universe, atleast the space marine
side(I know, I know, I've heard it all before). Just the universe mind you, I
hate all of their new games, but me and some buddies still occasionally role
play some rogue trader and I own alot, I mean alot of old space marine
miniatures. Anyways, we all really like Stargrunt 2 as a wargaming ruleset, so
we are trying to port our armies over to the stargrunt 2 universe with two
requirements: 1, they stay as true as possible to their back ground(not to GWs
game mechanics though), 2, they behave in a realistic way within that
universe(so that, unlike Games Workshops idea of physics, guns really are more
effective than slingshots). So, my army is in powered armor with a very few
exceptions, their primary weapon, an Imperial issue bolter, is documented as
being a.75 cal weapon firing rocket propelled explosive rounds, they field no
green troops and a high percentage of veterans, and their forces are small in
number compared to most enemy forces. It is a very big gun, but you also have
to figure that it is basically a powered armor only assault rifle for a force
that will be consistently out numbered. I realize that I could probably just
adjust everything down to more properly represent the Warhammer 40K
universe(Space Marine powered armor as full armor, bolter as an advanced
assault rifle, etc), but we want to keep it generic, so we can play games with
forces from other universes too, such as an alien Genestealer Cult vs. an NAC
colony defense force. The whole idea was inspired by a story called Ground
Zero, by Tom Sullivan,
http://stargrunt.virtualave.net/reports/ground.html

A great story by the way.

Jade Tseng

> Hi Jade,

> something a little over the top in small arms...

> a Support Weapon category rather than Assault Rifle....the ammunition

> is going to be monstrously heavy! I'm presuming the Rocket propelled

> to the round that the AR fires and not some kind of additional Grenade

> background you are playing out in Stargrunt?

> can't think up anything for them, so I thought I'd as you guys. The

> are:

> Jade Tseng

Last message was from me. Mr.Boydston is my computer teacher, I'm using his
computer to send and recieve email, and I missed the name setting before I
clicked send. Just in case anyone's curious.

Ahh, that makes much more sense. A PA only weapon. Yep, take it off the Power
Armour and in the hands of a 'crunchie' it becomes a support weapon.

May I suggest either:

a fixed FP4, IMP d8; it is HE after all so penetration against Armour will
be less likely than a tungsten/steel round. With FP 4 you will get the
liklihood of relatively high number of casualties for a small number of
firers.

OR

each weapon firing is FPd8 and IMPd8. I think I prefer this as the weapon
equates more to a support weapon. If you are using squads of 4 or 5 men and
they are of Vet or Elites then 5 Men will give you a d12 and 5d8s. Very high
chance of Suppression (HE rounds)at longer ranges and at close ranges Range
Bands1 or 2, unless in hard cover the target will take nasty casualties.

I think you can justify the FPd8 as you are porting over from a different
universe/background and the multipls of FP4 will have you stuck on d12
if you have more than 3 firers.....

Try them both and any other configs you can get hold of! I'd be very
interested in how they game out!

Cheers,

Owen

> -----Original Message-----

As a matter of fact, didn't the U.S. Military use a.75 cal. HMG during WWII,
as a mount for some vehicles?

Brian B

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Glover, Owen" <oglover@museum.vic.gov.au>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: "'gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU'" <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: RE: SG2, a little help with some weapon statistics
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:24:55 +1000

Hi Jade,

Although Brendan has already suggested FP3/ImpD12 perhaps you are
looking at something a little over the top in small arms...

.75 Cal is somewhere around; or just under 20mm. IMHO this really falls into a
Support Weapon category rather than Assault Rifle....

I'll get the URL for a by name list of 40k weapons with SG2 stats

Michael Brown

[quoted original message omitted]

> Brian Bilderback wrote:

Brian, At one point the AAF did experiment with the.60 caliber
(roughly 15MM) HMG.   A trio of these was mounted in the nose
of a P-38 for trials, the project was abandoned because the
weapon did not provide a sufficiently great advantage over the.50 cal HMG.

Bye for now,

http://myweb.veriomail.com/mwbrown/projects/FMA40Kstats.zip

zipped MS Word97 Document

Michael Brown

[quoted original message omitted]

Well, that's fine, but that's what I meant about dumbing down weapons to play
games only with the 40K universe. A boltgun is, as I mentioned, a.75 cal
assault rifle which fires explosive rounds. That would seem to be a little
more than an advanced assault rifle.

Jade Tseng

[quoted original message omitted]

I thought the intent was to get SG stats for 40k weapons. AFAIK a bolter fires
ice beads.

Michael Brown

[quoted original message omitted]

Nope, I'm quite sure, the rounds are.75 cal in size, explosive, and rocket
propelled(caseless).

Jade Tseng

[quoted original message omitted]

> Conchart@geotec.net wrote:

Can we say 'Gyroject' projectile here?

The actual round would be quite light for its size as it would burn off
the 'rocket' mass to get the thing moving.   The useful payload would
be small and be the primary source of potential damage to the target.

Bye for now,

> John Leary wrote:

> Nyrath the nearly wise wrote:

Nyrath, We are picking nits here! A gyrojet can be considered 'caseless'
because it does not have a 'shell caseing' or 'cartridge case' that contains
the propellent. I must also point out that if the projectile is 'unrotated',
the weapons ability to hit the broad side of a barn at short range is in
doubt.

Bye for now,

Unless, of course, it's Fin Stabilized.

B Back

----Original Message Follows----
From: John Leary <john_t_leary@pronetusa.net>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: SG2, a little help with some weapon statistics
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:29:54 -0700

I must also point out that if the projectile is 'unrotated', the weapons
ability to hit the broad side of a barn at short range is in doubt.

Bye for now, John L.

> John Leary wrote:

> Conchart@geotec.net wrote:

> Nope, I'm quite sure, the rounds are .75 cal in size, explosive, and

Ah, so *that's* why they're so inaccurate...

The shells themselves can also have rifling on them. I supposed that was the
method that MDC's used to obtain spin on the projectiles.

Hmm, rifling on a projectile implies contact with the barrel/launch
tube. I assumed MDCs would not due to the nature of the magnetic propulsion
system. Still, this same system could be used to rotate the projectile as well
as move it forward?

> -----Original Message-----

I was thinking that the atmospheric resitance channeled through the rifeling
channels on the shell would impart the spin, rather than contact with the
barrel. And, as you stated, magnetic or gravitic forces would provide the
propulsion.

---
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://members.xoom.com/rlyehable/ft/
---

[quoted original message omitted]

In Renegade Legion, the Gauss weaponry is sabot/fin stabilized. This
would seem to be most likely...

BBack

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bell, Brian K" <Brian_Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: "'gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU'" <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: RE: SG2, a little help with some weapon statistics
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 06:49:38 -0400

The shells themselves can also have rifling on them. I supposed that was the
method that MDC's used to obtain spin on the projectiles.

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net

That would get pretty complicated... you'd almost have to start them spinning
before feeding them into the pull of the gauss system....

BBack

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Glover, Owen" <oglover@museum.vic.gov.au>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: "'gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU'" <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: RE: SG2, a little help with some weapon statistics
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:12:41 +1000

Hmm, rifling on a projectile implies contact with the barrel/launch
tube. I assumed MDCs would not due to the nature of the magnetic propulsion
system. Still, this same system could be used to rotate the projectile as well
as move it forward?

> Well, that's fine, but that's what I meant about dumbing down weapons

Look at a Bolt Gun. If it's.75cal then how many rounds will fit in the
magazine? Big round fired from a short barrel, low ammo capacity.
So that's low accuracy _and_ low rate of fire. Make it FP1.

HE round which if I remember my WH bumpf correctly is designed to explode
after penetrating the body (so definitely not HEAT, etc.). That doesn't fit
well with SGII where penetration and damage potential are combined into the
single Impact value. So compromise and give it a medium I value: D10. Or give
it D12 but give armoured targets a die shift to their armour die.

> In message <200004041017.DAA10493@s7.mailbank.com> "Steve Pugh" writes:
That
> > would seem to be a little more than an advanced assault rifle.

...much the same as a shotgun with a box magazine, IIRC 12-bore
shotguns have a nominal bore diameter of.729". A boltgun is not
unlike a full-auto shotgun that doesn't fire shot.

> Big round fired from a short barrel, low ammo capacity.

...and rocket-propelled (which also hurts accuracy)...

> So that's low accuracy _and_ low rate of fire. Make it FP1.

...or restrict the number of range bands to 2 or 1, like an SMG.
If you represent a bolter as a super-advanced SMG, then marines
will be forced to rush into close-quarters battle as fast as
possible, which sounds very GW.

Laser-toting "guardsmen"-type troops with low FP, low impact
weapons would do better to use large squads to supress enemy at long range and
kill them with support weapons, which does not seem
un-GW either.

> HE round which if I remember my WH bumpf correctly is designed to

If you consider the exploding bolt to act like a grenade then you
could use a D-big for impact at short range and D-small at longer
ranges to represent fragmentation.