[SG] Vehicle design

7 posts ยท Dec 22 2000 to Jan 1 2001

From: Jaime Tiampo <fugu@s...>

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:26:17 -0800

Subject: [SG] Vehicle design

I'm working on some of my Gear designs for SG and I'm trying to find some info
on weapons and systems capacity points cost. Specifically I'm trying to build
an artilery Gear and I can't find info on how big an artilery piece should be.
And EW equipment, does it take up any space in the vehicle?

Jaime
From - Fri Dec 22 22:00:46 2000
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Subject: Re: System Thrust was Re: Rules you use...
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:42:43 -0800
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> >Remember that d = 1/2 at^2, so (without working it out to verify)
you
> >should be able to use 10^2 FT turns or about 1 day (25 hours).

The formula for constant linear acceleration is d = 1/2 at^2 (d =
distance, a = acceleration, t = time)

In FT scale, d = 1000km, t=.25hour, and a= about 2.47m/sec^2
(if you used 1 gee and 7.5 minutes you'd get close to 1000km which is why I
keep harping on it)

You're saying use d = 10,000,000km (increase from FT scale by 10^4). However,
the acceleration is multiplied by t *squared*. So increase the time by 10^2
and you should work out right. Plugging it into the
spreadsheet, I get a=2.47m/sec^2, t=90,000sec, and d does indeed turn
out to be 10,000,000km (actually, if you use 2.47m/sec^2 you get
10,003,500km).

90,000sec divided by 3600sec/hour = 25 hours.  So a FT ship under
constant acceleration covers 1 "system MU" in just over a day.

The problem is that, if you accelerate for 2 days, you should move 4MU, not 2.

From: Andrew Martin <Al.Bri@x...>

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:52:52 +1300

Subject: Re: [SG] Vehicle design

> Jaime wrote:

You might like to look at Dirtside II (DS2) for a vehicle design system, that
includes walkers.

> Specifically I'm trying to build an artilery Gear and I can't find

In DS2, anywhere from small to large, or Size 1 to Size 5. IIRC, 3 to 15
capacity points. BTW, artillery in SG2 and DS2 has very long range, as it does
in real life. Usually artillery vehicles are not present on the table top in
either game, unless it's a feature of the scenario. For a Gear figure,
probably a Size 1 would be best.

> And EW equipment, does it take up any space in the vehicle?

No. ECM just costs points, not capacity. There's some more ECM/EW stuff
on the Dirtside 2 section on my site.

All this is from memory, as I seem to have mislaid my DS2 book.

I hope that helps!

From: Brian Bell <bkb@b...>

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:35:36 -0500

Subject: RE: [SG] Vehicle design

> -----Original Message-----

> From DS2 p12:

Artillery comes in the following classes:
Class	 Weight     Examples
2 Light RAM Mortar
  4	 Medium     RAM Guns, Howitzers, smaller MRLs
6* Heavy MD Guns, large MRLs, HARs
* DS2 notes that this is an exception to the normal 1-5 range.
Also if you use the suggested rule that a vehicle may carry a weapon no more
than 1 size larger than the vehicle's size, only a size 5 vehicle may carry
Heavy Artillery. If you do
  not use this rule, it could fit in a class-4 vehicle, but
not much else would fit. (Capacity for a vehicle is 5x size).

Capacity for artillery is x3 class, in a limited traverse turret*, weapons.
This size includes enough storage for 3 actions of artillery fire (DS2 p40). *
Only listed option.

Glossary:
RAM   Rocket Assisted Mortar
MRL   Multiple Rocket Launcher
HAR   Heavy Artillery Rocket
MD    Mass Driver (In this case the shell is still explosive,
but the weapon fires an exceptional number of smaller shells via magnetic or
gravimetric means).

From: Andrew Martin <Al.Bri@x...>

Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 08:24:36 +1300

Subject: Re: [SG] Vehicle design

> No, you're thinking of direct-fire weapons. The DSII artillery in the

Thanks for putting me right, Oerjan!

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all.

From: Jaime Tiampo <fugu@s...>

Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 11:57:31 -0800

Subject: Re: [SG] Vehicle design

> Andrew Martin wrote:

> There's no capacity points cost, in other words, ECM doesn't take up
There's
> some more rules on my site, like Navigation warfare that you might be

I'm not talking ECM, but EW equipment. I'll check out your page. Nothing like
more information:)

Jaime
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Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:18:17 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <s_schoon@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Holiday wish and a question about an FT weapon that
isn't....
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> Has anyone ever thought about a crew-killer weapon (invent the PSB of

Someone did come up with an idea for crew killers but it's something
that's VERY difficult to balance - I'd almost say prohibitively so -
because some ships only have one crew factor. Eliminate that, and
you've got a "free" 60+ point value ship in one shot.

Schoon
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From: Mark Reindl <mreindl@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Holiday wish and a question about an FT weapon that
isn't....
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Unless you want to apply it only to repair crews (which only does you any good
if you're playing with repair rules:). Assume that there will be enough crew
lef t to fight the ship in battle.

Mark

> Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:

> >Has anyone ever thought about a crew-killer weapon (invent the PSB of
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From: John Leary <john_t_leary@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Selling Miniatures; Hey KR!!!
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> From: dwarf_warrior@juno.com

> *Pictures*

Geo-Hex has just put up a bunch of new
pix.   Phalon and UNSC mostly...

Hey KR, I cannot access the Sa'Vasku page!

Bye for now, John L.
From - Wed Jan 03 11:04:36 2001
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Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:55:04 -0800
From: Jaime Tiampo <fugu@spikyfishthing.com>
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> Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:

I came up with an crew killing weapon for the Sa'Vasku as a type of pod
armement.

Summery:

1 mass 3 energy
Kills one crew unit during end phase on a 4+

Crew kills unit like a repair, 6+ for one crew unit put into it and +1
for every other unit up to 3 units.

Attacks are simultaneous.

Optional rule, first turn the pod has to burn it's way through the hull
(causeing 1 damage to hull) then runs amuk in the ship. While hte pod is on
the hull it can be removed like a leach pod.

Jaime
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From: "bif smith" <bif@bifsmith.fsnet.co.uk>
To: "full thrust" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: FT-Fighter acceleration?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 22:59:17 -0000
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A quick question? If a ship accelerates at 1 thrust, and covers 1 MU in 1
turn, and 1 thrust equals 1G, for a fighter to be able to go from a standing
start to a standing stop and cover 48 MU (a fast fighter using secondary
movement), would it`s acceleration be 96G`s? (or am I missing something?).

Also, a SML missile has a mass of aprox. 600 kg (standard missile, not
ER),
a warhead of 1D6, and a thrust high enough to cover 24 MU (working from memory
here), whereas a FT missile masses 2000 kg (roughly x6 the mass) for a warhead
only twice the damage, and a thrust only capable of moving it 18 MU in a turn
(but with 3 turns endurance instead of 1). You have double the
payload (warhead), x3 endurance, but only 3/4 the range? I can see a
quick & easy way to make MT missiles better here?

BIF "yorkshire born,yorkshire bred, strong in arms, thick in head"

From: Brian Bell <bkb@b...>

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 06:25:39 -0500

Subject: RE: [SG] Vehicle design

DS2 offers no help in this case as there is no EW in DS2 (but also no leader
activation of units, so it is not as important as in SG2).

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
-----

> -----Original Message-----
Nothing
> like more information :)
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From: "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)" <Brian.Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: [FT]Weapon variations
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 06:39:33 -0500
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Using the FB1 rules, P-Torps can have up to 3 arcs.
But, no, I have not tried an all-arc P-Torp.

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://www.ftsr.org
-----

> -----Original Message-----
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From: "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)" <Brian.Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: Can a FT only Fleet be viable?
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It would be an interesting mix if you used the FT/2ndEd rules for those
ships and the FB1/2 rules for those ships.

FT2 Advantages: 1) Less Expensive (I believe) 2) Strong Hulls for all ships 3)
Wider firing arcs (greater coverage) 4) Level 3 screens
5) ADS (can attack non-attacking fighters)
6) Cheaper 'A' Beams
7) Can't loose repair crews/More efficient repair crews

FB1 Advantages: 1) Size (FB ships are roughly 2x the size of FT2 ships) 2)
Core Systems (FT2 does not have core systems rules)
3) Arcs for P-Torps
4) Smaller Aft Arc 5) More repair crews

IMHO I would think that, in an equal mass game, the FT2 ships would have a
slight advantage over the FB1 ships except in a
fighter/missile heavy engagement.

I probably already mentioned it, but you are welcome to browse the over 200
FT2 ship designs that I have collected at
http://www.ftsr.org/ft/ft2/registry.html

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://www.ftsr.org
-----

> -----Original Message-----
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From: "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)" <Brian.Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: Ship Names (Kra'Vak)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 07:43:22 -0500
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I have been wanting to do an expanded Kra'Vak word-fragment list for
some time, but have not accomplished it yet.

You can see Jon Tuffley's Official Word-Fragment list that he posted to
the list as well as Steven Arrowsmith's list it was based on and my variation
derived from FB2 without seeing JT's list. These are at
http://members.nbci.com/gzg_l/xeno/

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
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> -----Original Message-----
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> "Barclay, Tom" wrote:

> 1) This metalstorm gun thing...

One of the problems with the Browning.50 Heavy MG was its tendency for
non-dispersal (it was TOO accurate) at range.  That Automatic weapons
fire spreads out is a good thing. I suspect that Metalstorm is not zeroed at
all, a s this cannot be done. The barrels are pointing in the same direction
(mostly), but the dispersion is needed because the target is not always
precisely located. Metalstorm is gross overkill for mankilling, and probably
will not be used for that (claymores are cheaper and lighter). It will be used
to destroy aircraft attacking high value targets, or against missiles when
mounted shipboard. There will never be enough men in one place to warrant
firing one. Aircraft cost more than metalstorm, and the dispersion means that
something should hit the aircraft and something hitting the aircraft should
cripple it, a s it must be light enough to fly and budgets prevent anything in
it from being
non-essential.

> Now, you say, there could be some form of locking mechanism. But the

If I was the designer of metalstorm for field use, I would not bother to
consider reloading it at all. The barrels would be six sigma rated to fire its
load once and then they are abandoned in the field (I would never force
infantr y to carry any spent weapon that cannot be loaded in the field,
especially if its heavy).

> Now, these weapons do offer some interesting advantages from a

These will never be issued to line troops as a personal weapon

> And how about ease of use? One advantage to a mag system (moreso I

As a support weapon, there is nothing besides shooting at aircraft that
metalstorm does better than a GPMG, and much that it does worse.
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From: "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)" <Brian.Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: Ship Names (was Re: RE-Ship types names)
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Shoot Him => <= No, Shoot Him Rabit Season! Duck Season! Shhh! Be vewy vewy
qwiet. I'm huntin' rabbits.

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
-----

> -----Original Message-----
[snip]
> >
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The real problem is the shear volume of space. For example, if you tried
to accurately depict the Earth-Moon system, Earth would be a 13" dia.
sphere and the Moon would be a 3" dia sphere 384" away. That's over 10
yards... It's worse for the gas gaint planets, even if you discard all of the
small asteroid sized moons...

I've been trying to scale out the Solar System, and the each planetary system.
I originally thought of doing the planets at 1mu = 1mm (map scale) = 1000km
(actual size). Even with only the major moons, dia >= 1000km, you still need
huge amounts of paper:
Jupiter    4 meters across
Saturn 7.2 meters across Uranus 0.4 meters across (Hurrah, a sane one!)
Neptune    7.2 meters across

The problem with increasing the scale to 1mu = 1mm = 10,000km is that most of
planets and moons go to points...

IAS

From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@m...>

Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 10:04:05 +1100

Subject: Re: [SG] Vehicle design

G'day guys,

> BTW, artillery in SG2 and DS2 has very

Speak for yourself mister, most of the guys here have artillery on table

(makes calling it a hell of a lot easier), I'm the only sucker who has off
board stuff and that's because mine's ortillery... much harder to do CBR on
that;)

Having said that I don't disagree with what you told Jaime mech wise though.

Cheers

Beth