[SG] Scout units

Anyone use scouting squads in their armies? I've been toying with the idea of
3 man scout elements as part of my platoons. Giving them partial
armour D8, light troops 8", /w assault riffles w/ gl (FP 9), a laser
designator and set one as artilery observer.

In the TO&E for my PA Mercenaries I have a 6-man Recon Section attached
at the company level. This is split into 2 man detachments to support
the individual platoons or grouped up for long-range patrols.

Eli

> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:04:48 -0700

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> On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Jaime Tiampo wrote:

> Anyone use scouting squads in their armies? I've been toying with the

I've been playing with a few ideas here, myself. But first, with respect to
the suggestion above:

- - isn't partial armour D6? I thought D8 was the full armour? I'm gonna
check later.

- - I always thought you needed to be unencumbered by armour to get the
8"
movement?

The ideas I've been playing with are twofold. When the situation calls for a
'get in there, find the enemy, and hold till relieved', I use my
Pathfinders/Special Boat Squadron (haven't decided what I'm going to
call them yet), in full body armour (since this allows orbital insertion), in
a
7 men squad + sniper.

For other situations, I plan to use my recently acquired ghurka's. Sneak
about, locate enemy, then report back sort of thing. If the enemy decides to
get mean and nasty, they have enough punch to force him to think it over,
giving the opportunity to get their asses out of there. Yes, I LIKE the IAVR's
they're all equipped with for those occasions.

Oh, a last idea I've come up with is a HEAVILY ecm and sensor equipped walker,
sprouting antennae all over, for some high tech recce. Of course, the above
forces should have some damn good sensor equipment as well.

There's one thing which I find a bit of a shame; there is no advantage in
being lightly equipped, with respect to being detected by sensor rolls. One
might make a case for lightly equipped troops being harder to pick up on
radar, making less noise etc. On the other hand, one could make a case
for counter-detection equipment being in the bulkier armour, negating
the effect (chameleon layers etc etc)

Just my $0.02,

I plan to use OU Light Horse Grav Bikes when I get enough orders in 15mm (see
http://www.eurekamin.com.au/Eureka300_ClubScience_Fiction.html). There
are 100 on order (not reflected on Nic's web site, yet). I have not decided on
the organization. But it will likely be a platoon attached at battalion level
and parceled down to company level in 2 or 3 man teams [I.e. no more than 1
team will ever show up in a regular game]. If my opponents agree, we will use
the Mechanized Cavalry
(http://www.ftsr.org/sg2/techlib/mechcav.asp).
3 man teams will probably have 1 Forward Observer, 1 Sniper (or Marksman), and
1 EW Specialist). Yes, a lot of points to put into a scouting unit, but they
also have the ability to exit a bad situation quickly. 2 man teams will
usually include a Forward Observer.

I plan to use the Kra'Vak Riding Beasts in the same manner, as scouting
parties. I envision the KV Cavalry to be close assault specialists (giving the
beast a support die for close attacks). Scout out enemy positions. If the
enemy unit spotted is vulnerable, set an ambush and close assault them. If the
enemy is too strong, try to flank them and wait for the main attack to make
the CA.

> "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)" wrote:

Shame these are OUDF; I wonder what the chances of riders of other
nationalities are? Problem is, I don't want 300 (more like
half-a-dozen).

> If my opponents agree, we will use the Mechanized Cavalry
If
> the enemy unit spotted is vulnerable, set an ambush and close assault

My plans for 15mm NSL scout forces were to use small teams of 3-5
Jaegers in purpose built light GEVs (class-1 or a small class-2) -
something along the lines of the Sdfkz 250/9 of WWII vintage. The
vehicle would be well armed enough to get itself out of a tight spot (a
class-1 gun of some sort and maybe a GMS/L tube) and the infantry would
be sufficient so that a pair of vehicles plus passengers could take and hold a
farmhouse, crossroads etc until help arrived. I'd like a few grav bikes of
some description as well, if I can find any in 15mm, to form a
composite recce group (like the mixed motorcycle / armoured car units
the Germans used in the earlier stages of WWII).

OK.

Size 2 Armor: 2 Power: CFE Mobility: Fast GEV FCS: Basic
1x RFAC/1 in Turret
1x GMS/L (Basic)
2x APSW (SAW) ECM: Basic
Troop Capacity: 4 (1/2 Squad)
Open Topped (Optional. The only picture I found was open topped) DS2 Points:
71.

Or if you could give up the GMS: Size: 2 Armor: 2 Power: CFE Mobility: Fast
GEV FCS: Basic
1x RFAC/1 in Restricted Turret (front 180)
1x APSW ECM: Basic Troop Capacity: 8 (1 Squad) Open Topped DS2 Points: 47

or Size: 1 Armor: 1 Power: CFE Mobility: Fast GEV FCS: Basic
1x RFAC/1 in Fixed Mount
1x APSW ECM: Basic
Troop Capacity: 1 (1/2 Squad)
Open Topped DS2 Points: 26

As for 15mm Grav Bikes (until Club 300 comes around), you may want to look for
some Micro Machines Stormtrooper sets. I saw some in a dollar store
before Christmas (6-8 troopers in a package including a grav bike). Not
true 15mm, but perhaps close enough to do in a pinch.

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
-----

> -----Original Message-----

> As for 15mm Grav Bikes (until Club 300 comes around), you may want to
Not true
> 15mm, but perhaps close enough to do in a pinch.

Does anyone have any photos of the OUDF Grav Bikes online? (the 25mm; I know
the 15mm don't exist yet). The Eureka site (near as I've been able to find) is
kinda sparse with photos, so it's difficult to see what it
is you may or may not want.  :-/

Mk

> "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)" wrote:

This is the sort of thing I was thinking of. The basic Sdkfz 250 was
open-topped, but the 250/9 had a roof over the troop compartment with a
20mm turret (although the turret was open topped - it only had a mesh
screen to stop partizans or Maquis throwing grenades inside!).

> Or if you could give up the GMS:

Too large - don't need / want that much troop capacity in the recce
unit.

> or
Not true
> 15mm, but perhaps close enough to do in a pinch.

I'm using GZG 15mm SG2 figures and want to stick to them. I can scratchbuild
the bikes, that isn't a problem, but I would prefer
'proper' NSL crew - I guess it's time to get converting.

Cheers

> Indy wrote:
Not true
> > 15mm, but perhaps close enough to do in a pinch.
I
> know the 15mm don't exist yet). The Eureka site (near as I've been

Isn't that because the model doesn't get made until enough people have signed
up for it?

See http://www.ftsr.org/sg2/techlib/mechcav.asp at bottom of page.
Picture and Paint by Owen Glover (I need to correct the credits).

-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://www.ftsr.org/sg2/
-----

> -----Original Message-----
Not
> true
I
> know the 15mm don't exist yet). The Eureka site (near as I've been

> Tony Francis wrote:

Maybe I'm laboring under a mis-impression (wouldn't be the first
time ;-), but aren't there 25mm OUDF grav bikes in existence already?
Or am I just being delusional? (no comments from peanut gallery!)

As for the other bit, Eureka has a number of items in stock that I'd like to
see pics of, but they have very few images online to correspond with their
product list (at least that I've been able to find; hence my request a few
weeks ago about pics of snow troopers; I wanted to see what ones were already
in existance before I try and find time to contact Nic about doing 'em in
15mm - unless Jon beats him to it! ;-)

Mk

> "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)" wrote:
Picture
> and Paint by Owen Glover (I need to correct the credits).

Okay, cool, thanks!

Mk

> Indy wrote:

Sorry, that's my fault for not reading your mail properly. I'll crawl
back under my stone now, shall I ? ;-)

> Tony Francis wrote:
[...]
> > >

Nope, too late - need you out in the open!  :-)

Mk

> Indy wrote:

What, where you can get a clean shot at me ? No chance - I'm heading for
cover RIGHT NOW!

> --- Derk Groeneveld <derk@cistron.nl> wrote:

> - - isn't partial armour D6? I thought D8 was the

Yes and Yes.

> - - I always thought you needed to be unencumbered

It says "Lightly equipped". Which to me always meant "no armor, no heavy
weapons" YMMV, it's not defined.
I certaintly wouldn't claim it for d8-armored troops.

> There's one thing which I find a bit of a shame;

Depends on what sort of sensors you're using.

> John Atkinson wrote:

Actually that's what I ment. D6 armour.

> > - - I always thought you needed to be unencumbered

No, regular movement is unemcumbered. When you lug around heavy weapons (class
1) or carry wounded then you're encumbered. 8" is for lightly equipped troops.

> It says "Lightly equipped". Which to me always meant

I more figure it's troops without support weapons, heavy weapons and light
armour or less. I'm a little iffy on the AIVR though. Would light troops still
have that?

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> On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Jaime Tiampo wrote:

> > It says "Lightly equipped". Which to me always meant

I read it as unarmoured. Any idea how bulky and uncomfortable armour is? I'm
MUCh less bothered about squad support weapons and IAVR's, really.

Cheers,

On Tue, 03 Apr 2001 16:01:27 -0700 Jaime Tiampo
<fugu@spikyfishthing.com> writes: <snip>
> It says "Lightly equipped". Which to me always meant

If they want to be able to deal with the odd vehicle, yes. Like, APC's, Tanks,
etc. <grin> Would IAVR be able to bunker bust like the old LAW? I assume so...

Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious (American Mongrel) You don't have to be
French to be
a 'frog', or even human! Nektons - Real Marines! (Die, Ralnai, Die!)
Starguard,
Dirtside 2,  Ratner's Space Marines and Full Thrust/FB1.  Resistance is
everything!

> --- Jaime Tiampo <fugu@spikyfishthing.com> wrote:

> > It says "Lightly equipped". Which to me always

Well... I'd let it fly.

--- "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)"
> <Brian.Bell@dscc.dla.mil> wrote:

> Size 2

This is pretty close to the perfect scout vehicle,
except I'd probably put better ECM on it--ability to
live long enough to report is high on my list of priorities.

> Or if you could give up the GMS:

Nice, but you really don't need a full squad for scouts. However, the Germans
did have a tendency to include platoons of panzergrenadiers in their recon
units in order to sieze vital positions they found undefended. This looks like
it's decent at that role.

> or

Uh, Troops Capacity is 3. But I hate fixed mounts.

> -----Original Message-----
[Bri] I would also (and probably a better FCS), but I was trying for the
minimalist version.

> > Or if you could give up the GMS:
[Bri] True. But would work well for a Team of PA scouts. Why have a
vehicle for PA? It saves on the suit batteries. Would not PA scouts be nosier
than regular scouts? Perhaps, depends on if you view PA & Walkers as lumbering
giants or relatively agile. Besides, you are already carrying them in a noisy
GEV. If you want quiet, go Grav.
> > or
[Bri] Oops! You are correct. For a Size 1 APC, you can't mount any
weapons
but APSWs if you want to carry 4 troops (1/2 squad).

> John

My comments marked by [Bri]

---

--- "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)"

> [Bri] True. But would work well for a Team of PA

GEVs are also about 2.5 times as fast. On open terrain, the advantage goes to
5x as fast.