SG questions (DSII turn length)

Adrian Johnson posted:

> Can GMS launchers be fired at dispersed targets?

This question opens a big can of worms. We had a debate on this list sometime
within the last month or so all about this topic. If you look
back through old list postings (or digest archives - I forget the
website
for the archives - maybe somebody else can post it please??), you'll
see.

Basically, one side of the argument is that NO you can't, because the warhead
is designed for anti armour and you would have to be REALLY lucky to actually
hit a single trooper in a dispersed infantry formation. A near miss would
probably not do much damage, since the warhead is a shaped charge. The rules
say that you fire a GMS using the guidance vs. the target's ECM, but infantry
doesn't have an ECM rating.

The other side of the argument is that if an IAVR (anti armour shaped charge
warhead, but unguided) can be used against infantry, why can't a GMS? The GMS
is going to cause *some* kind of damage if it hits close to a trooper, even if
just by shrapnel. Personally, I think that there should
be *some* chance of a GMS doing damage to infantry - and our group plays
it that way. There is no "definitive" yes or no answer to this in the rules,
though...

************
The archives are on "Starship Jockey - a Full Thrust Page" I'm not sure
of the http: but you can get there from the geo hex page.

The only "historical" mention was of GMS fire being used against emplaced
troops. My feeling is that GMS vs. emplacements treats troops as casualties as
normal, with the ECM die being against whatever ECM is on the emplacement
(electronic camuofalge, IR dispersing archetecture, ect...) With the images we
have seen on TV from Kosovo, I'd say that the bunker, as a bunker, would
probably still be standing and could be used by another infanrtry team. Dire
ct fire weapons could probably knock it over easier though.

GMS Fired against dispersed targets depends on what their signature is. Humans
have this nasty tendency to blend in to the background in a firefight,
especially on IR, and humans don't have much of a radar signature to begin
with. Certain armors however can increase a human's signature. for game
purpouses I say that Basic Battledress (camo fatigues: armor D4) has an ECM
die of D12, Partial Light armor (armor D6) has an ECM die of D10,
...and
so on to heavy power armor (armor D12) has an ECM die of D4.

Power armor 'might' be equipped with actual countermeasure equipment, this
would have to be written into the scenario, as it would probably be issued to
special forces on advanced recon missions.

As to casualties, roll for ONE random target. the previous discussion had that
the blast radius for a ground effect with a shaped charge was about 2 yards. 1
inch in SGII is 10 meters. It would be impossible to target any single
infantryman as the buggers keep moving behind and in front of each other
changing the lock from target to target.

As to IAVRs vs. GMS. the modern IAVR (M72-LAW)  is something of an "OH
S**T!" weapon. every trooper is equipped with one in the event of encountering
a tank. they are probably less shaped than charge, in case it needs to be used
against a dispersed formation (my PSB, I admit, but
reasonable for sci-fi weapons development). Specific tank busting
weapons will be issued to troopers that are planned to attack armor
formations, these will have tighter shaped charges specificaly for penetrating
armor (PSB: necessary for advanced armor materials).

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> If so do you treat it like a support weapon except that it has to

And use 12" rangebands, or something like that. Normally the size of your
rangebands are determined by the unit quality, but with a GMS, we thought you
should have *some* benefit from the enhanced guidance and sighting systems,
but at the same time shouldn't have the "across the table" sort of
unlimited range they normally do.   So use 12" rangebands, and the
defender
uses range/cover modifiers as normal.

For firepower, use the guidance die type, and the unit quality die as normal.

That's how we do it, and it works well.
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I use the armor signature I described above, but you pay your money you make
your choice...

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> Are there any limitations placed an an EW trooper, like on movement

No restrictions stated in the rules.
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the length of one turn is stated at 5 minutes. I'm not sure I agree with that
but see my notes on a previous thread below

(previous topic: Sensor Range Question) As to the DSII 15 minute turn
length... a civ. wheeled vehicle on a highway (easy movement) moves 20
inches or 2 KM. A real vehicle at 60 MPH* or 97KM/H  it takes 1.2
minutes to cross that space (1.2371.....ect.) if each side has up to a
battalion, and each unit moves while all others are stopped it could take 15
min. Of course if I'm driving anything on top of a raised highway that
streches the entire tabletop (a fun piece of scenery to model, so why not use
it?), and I'm not prepared to fire back (because I'm in "travel
mode"),
I'm mot liable to stop twice for 13.8 minutes each stop (it takes 3 turns to
cross a 60" table, 2 for fast GEV and Grav) while as many as six or seven tank
platoons get to, not just take pot shots at me, but purpousely manuver to
intercept, and fire on me. Also a tank platoon is not going to stop twice for
13.8 minutes each stop while I go charging past them, to get to better cover.
The idea of divisions not moving until another division (battle group ect..
the kind of level that you see in most historical documentaries like the PBS
Battlefield WWII series**) is sort of valid, divisions will hold position
untill previous divisions complete their missions, and confirmation reaches
command levels, then the order goes out for the next division...a signifigant
delay even with satelite comm technology (confermation of objective taking the
longest). But DSII is under the battle level. DSII is more represenative of
the firefight level, where no one is stopping for anything, and movement is
life.

*At 60 MPH normal movement for a wheeled vehicle is 30 MPH, poor movement
(over "flat" fields) is about 15 MPH. I live on the high plains of colorado.
While putting up a fence for my family's ranch I used my light truck for
moving fence posts around the property. If I stayed on the well traveled path
I could get 30 MPH on a good day, but off the path I had to keep it at around
15 or risk breaking my axles, runing into cactii and puncturing my tires, ect.
(yes a cactus can puncture modern vulcanized rubber tires.) Besides if you
wanted to say a wheeled vehicle moving "easy" moved at 75MPH the turn length
would be reduced even more.

** a good series I highly recommend it. Now there is a Battlefield Vietnam
series. In Colorado, USA it is on channel 6 at 9:00 pm on Thursday. I missed
all but the very begining of the first episode, it looks like the same format
as the WWII series.
******************

> The SG book differes with the Quick Reference card on what to do with

I would tend to say "default to the rulebook" for stuff like this.
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use the rulebook text, not the quick refrence box in the rulebook. A dummy
counter should remain in place as it could be a sniper or a mine counter, If
the scenario allows none of the above then remove it, as it couldn't be one of
those anyways.
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These are questions that would be well suited to an "official" FAQ. Maybe if
we bug Jon T enough we can set an "offical" FAQ up on somebody's website
- - the GZG on-line catalogue site, maybe???

Hope this helps.

Adrian
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Okay I've added my $.02 + intrest and government intervention (taxes)