K. I am going to ask for opinions.
I am looking to give statistics to 3 weapons.
The first is a Needler Pistol that fires short bursts (10-30) of needles
in a fairly small pattern. The second is a Needle Assault Weapon (similar to
Advanced Assault Rifle
-
AAR).
The third would be the Needle equivalent of a Squad automatic weapon
(SAW).
My thought would be to up the Firepower (rate of fire) and decrease the
Impact.
Normal Weapons from p.34 of SG2:
Range FP Impact
Light Autopistol: Close 1 d6
Heavy Autopistol: Close 1 d10
AAR: 2 d10
Conventional SAW: d8 d10
Gauss SAW: d10 d10
I was thinking for the Needle Weapons:
Range FP Impact
Needle Pistol: Close 2 d4
NAW: 4 d6
Needle SAW: d12 d6
I was thinking that the needle weapons would be used primarily by security and
police rather than military.
Initial look says lots of suppressions, not many casualties.
I was thinking for the Needle Weapons:
Range FP Impact Suggested FP
Suggested Impact
Needle Pistol: Close 2 d4 1.5 d4
NAW: 4 d6 3.5
d6
Needle SAW: d12 d6 d10
d8
Reasoning: I lowered the FP to tone this down a touch. As posted 2 men with
NAW have the same FP as a squad of Riflemen. I think the higher ROF of the SAW
would account for more chances to wound.
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]
> On 17 Apr 2001, at 11:19, bkb@beol.net wrote:
> I am looking to give statistics to 3 weapons.
All look okay to me except the FP4 for the NAW. FP is a measure of a lot of
things, (including the accuracy of the weapon and light projectiles like
needles tend to be inaccurate) and I just can't see
needle rifle having a better firepower than a gauss rifle/grenade
launcher.
Can it really have a higher rate of fire than a gauss rifle AND a greater area
of potential hits than a 30mm grenade AND have both of those quantities in
large enough amounts to counter act the poor accuracy of the needles?
If someone fits a grenade launcher to the NAW do they get FP5?
If you do go with such a high FP then I'd suggest some sort of
penalty to account for the poor accuracy (and poor range - light
projectiles with probably lowish muzzle velocity). Say a die shift to the
targets' range die?
Of course it may all depend on what PSB you're using. What propels the
needles? What, if anything, stabalises them in flight?
> Absender: bkb@beol.net
Just curious: Why do you think needle weapons would be especially suited for
this purpose?
Greetings
Stupid Web Mail!
I wrote a nice response, but when I went to send it the web-mail timed
out and disposed of the message!
Anyway, thank you for your feedback. Here is my responses:
First after thinking about it, lets drop the Needle SAW. If you need that much
firepower, you would grab a regular SAW.
PSB I had for the needles was gauss projected needles (either spin or fin
stabilized).
I figured that the Needle Pistol fired 10-20x the fire rate and area
coverage of a autopistol. Along the same lines, I figured the NAW would fire
10-20x the rate of an AAR. It would fire slightly faster than a gauss
AAR and the adjustable choke would allow for a larger coverage (adjusts to
have each needle follow the same path or spread out in a shotgun like
pattern). That is why I chose a higher firepower. But perhaps, the FP of the
NAW should be dropped to a FP of 3 (like the gauss AAR).
True, needles are lighter than bullets and do not travel as far with the same
accuracy. However, the system does not give a.50 calbur shell an advantage in
range over a.22, so I am unsure if it should have a range penalty. Also, the
GL is not seperated for range either. I would have trouble believing that it
is not less accurate at long range than the AAR that it is attacked to (let
alone that an elite can fire it 6000m away
[12"x5 range bands]). If we give it a penalty, it should be 1 down-shift
in range band size (veterans use the range of regulars, and regulars use green
ranges, etc. = 2" less rb).
Due to the high rate and spread of fire, perhaps these weapons should shift up
2 in a close assault (like a shotgun)?
So revised:
Range FP Impact
Needle Pistol: Close 2 d4
NAW: 3 d6
Needle SAW: [removed]
As for why this weapon would be suited for police and security is the lower
leathality and penetration of the weapons. They would have a less chance of
damaging sensitive equipment and structures (such as the sides of an aircraft)
and less chance of causing collateral deaths.
---
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net ICQ: 12848051 AIM: Rlyehable The Full Thrust Ship
Registry:
http://www.ftsr.org
---
[quoted original message omitted]
You might think about giving needle weapons a reduced range--like say no
fire past medium or something like that (for the non-pistol ones). Low
density projectiles tend to lose their velocity rather quickly in air.
If the darts are high density (and high velocity), then they would act like
gauss rounds, right?
Rob
[quoted original message omitted]
> Stupid Web Mail!
I wrote a nice response, but when I went to send it the web-mail timed
out and disposed of the message!
-->I hate that...
-->Have you read Owen Glover's TOE for the "Japanese Corporate Response
Group"?
-->OOPS. I just surfed over to the stargrunt.com site 'cause I think
the TOE was hosted there, and the site is gone!!! I didn't know that had
happened! That sucks. Good site.
-->IIRC, Owen wrote up the Japanese mercs as having a needle-type Gauss
weapon. He had a bit of PSB, which explained that the "shot" fired was a
single heavy needle, surrounded by a "sabot" of lighter needles. So, the
single heavy one had good range and penetration, and the lighter ones made the
weapons devestating at close range (like a shotgun). I think he suggested that
they would be FP3 Impact d10 (or so) at CLOSE range, and then drop to FP2
Impact d8 at anything beyond close range. I'm not sure,
but they might have also given the bonus in close-assults for carrying
an "assault weapon" (effectively a shotgun). This was, I thought, quite an
effective way of representing a needle weapon. Great at close range, ok
(not as good as an AAR/GL combo) at any other range.
> penalty. Also, the GL is not seperated for range either. I would have
--> Um, that's a bit far... I'm sure that's just a typo, but that
should be 600m not 6000m...:)
> As for why this weapon would be suited for police and security is the
--> You could achieve the same result (PSB-wise) by hypothesizing
"regular" guns using binary propellant... they just meter down the propellant
charge
substantially for "low-impact" (ie low penetration) situations, and use
standard ammo.
--> Be that as it may, we've played using Japanese Mercs with Owen's
TOE, and they worked well. Good game balance. You don't want to meet them
close up unless you're in Power Armour, but otherwise, they aren't too bad to
deal with.
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> On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Brian Bell wrote:
> I figured that the Needle Pistol fired 10-20x the fire rate and area
Like gauss AAR + GL, actually. So that sounds heavy enough to me ;)
> True, needles are lighter than bullets and do not travel as far with
Then again, a GL does not need to be as accurate as a rifle; it will still
have the same explosive radius at that range. Now, you were suggesting a
weapon that has a shotgun-like spread. That seems another story, really?
> Due to the high rate and spread of fire, perhaps these weapons should
Not if you're not taking the rnge penalty of a shotgun, as well, I'd think.
> So revised:
Ah. That's why I thought 'shipboard weapon', really. As for police use, I
don't see that happening. Police'll go for something that'll drop the bad guy
for sure, and miss the bystanders; not something that would probably mildly
damage both bystanders and bad guy. Case in point is current police
'manstopper rounds'; they're absolutely vicious to the target, as they
shred their energy to reduce the odds ofblast-through resulting in
injuries behind the target.
Cheers,
> On 17 Apr 2001 13:57 GMT KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de writes:
My dos centavos - this seems more like a private person's self defense
weapon in a gang laden world then a security weapon (unless the needles were
dosed with sedatives...)
> On 17 Apr 2001 KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de wrote:
> >Absender: bkb@beol.net
Less likely to cause property damage that conventional bullets?
I could especially see this for spaceship/station security - you don't
want to be punching holes in bulkheads.
Aren't there already some sort of 'disintegrating' pistol round available, for
use on airplanes? Bullets strong enough to go thru flesh, but which shatter
when they hit anything harder? You don't want holes in your pressure seal at
35,000 feet; you'd want them even less out in vacumn.
Of course, this reasoning would make needle weapons degrade significantly
against any sort of body armour, especially the hardsuit & PA types. Perhaps
give d8 or higher armour a free upward shift against needle impacts?
Well, this arguement hinges greatly on individual definitions of what a Needle
Beam does. The rounds you mentioned are 'safety rounds'
developed for use in thin-skinned environments. They make a mess out of
flesh but will shatter even on household walls.
Great for home defense or use by teams operating in space stations or on board
a ship.
Eli
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:26:20 -0700 (PDT)