On Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:21 AM, Richard Kirke
> [SMTP:richardkirke@hotmail.com] wrote:
> nations, I haven't really thought about the IF, but I see NI as a very
> insular possibly even pre-rabinic style Jewish state. 100% Kosha (sp?)
etc.
> BTW are these female soldiers in the way we have them in the UK (i.e.
> GZG range, with a rifle and fighting like any other grunt?
I think part of the reason there are few women in front line fighting units in
the West is the higher education and health system. One of the problems I
understand is that it can be difficult for women to maintain their health
while in the field for extended periods due to the biology involved. Of
course, in the future, I'm sure all those problems will have been overcome, so
there's no reason for them not to join the grunts.
> I think part of the reason there are few women in front line fighting
Social problems as well. I was told (during basic training) that having a
woman on the front lines would be a Bad Thing because it would cause the male
troopers to put themselves at undo risk in order to protect them from harm.
Combat is risky...and folks get themselves killed helping a buddy but the
higher ups feel it would be even worse when a woman is in there as well.
The biology is a factor...but I think it's just the public version of the
justification.
Damo
On Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:13 PM, Damond Walker
> [SMTP:dwalker@syncreticsoft.com] wrote:
I wasn't going to mention those, as it starts getting into the baser instincts
of man (esp regarding enemy troops).
On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:13:06 -0500, "Damond Walker"
> <dwalker@syncreticsoft.com> wrote:
> Social problems as well. I was told (during basic training) that
There are a lot of reasons given by certain members of the military as to why
they don't want women in combat positions. Most of them are completely bogus.
History has shown that women make good soldiers. I read an excellent article
in Military History Quarterly on the British women who had combat roles in
WW2... as flak gunners. They were allowed to do everything but pull the
trigger (as it was seen as wrong to have a woman actually kill a man). They
destroyed almost all the myths of why women couldn't be in combat. And, yes,
they came under fire. A number of women died in attacks on their emplacements.
I hadn't heard about the biology thing, though I can't for the life of me
think of what could be the problem, biologically speaking. This sounds like
someone justifying their own prejudices.
I suspect it's more psychological than biological... IMHO, women are less
likely to listen to total BS from a superior officer without telling him he's
(or she's) full of it <g>.
on 02.10.29 11:45 AM, Allan Goodall at agoodall@hyperbear.com scribbleth:
> I hadn't heard about the biology thing, though I can't for the life of
> On 10/28/02 9:45 PM, "Allan Goodall" <agoodall@hyperbear.com> wrote:
> There are a lot of reasons given by certain members of the military as
They
> destroyed almost all the myths of why women couldn't be in combat.
And, yes,
> they came under fire. A number of women died in attacks on their
True enough. Weren't there also hordes (well, maybe not hordes) of combatant
females in the Russian army during WW2?
> I hadn't heard about the biology thing, though I can't for the life of
Another excuse I'm sure. But the biological side deals with sanitary
conditions mostly, periods, etc. Women have more nooks and crannies I guess.;)
Damo
On 10/28/02 8:18 PM, "Robertson, Brendan" <Brendan.Robertson@dva.gov.au>
wrote:
> I wasn't going to mention those, as it starts getting into the baser
Sad as it is it's all part of Man.
Damo
[quoted original message omitted]
From: "K.H.Ranitzsch" <KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de>
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 07:49:12AM +0100, K.H.Ranitzsch wrote:
I think, as a general rule (almost a stereotype), women are less willing to
get into a fight than men, but if they're highly motivated enough to do so
they will fight extremely effectively (where a man may still be in the
"fighting for fun" mindset, at least to start with).
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out
to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An'
go to your Gawd like a soldier.
G'day,
> That describes the female students at the Australian Defence
I can't speak for all the ADFA entrants, but the group from my high school
year all joined up to get an education. In small towns like where I went to
school the only way out was to join the army or bag a scholarship. So they're
pragmatists at the very least;)
Cheers
From: <Beth.Fulton@csiro.au>
> I can't speak for all the ADFA entrants, but the group from my high
They're also some of the "best and brightest". Getting into ADFA is hard. My
Pet Peeve is that although the Royal Australian Navy Midshipmen and Royal
Australian Air Force Officer Cadets get enough time for "Ackers" -
Academic
study - very often the Army Officer Cadets don't. A helluva waste.
And the regs (regulars) who get streamed in have to go back to their units
rather than have the chance to get their masters or doctorate. Or even do an
honours year (and that *really* gets my goat).
IMHO this is "eating the seed corn" - the people that really excel (top
5%)
should be given the chance to show their excellence academically, THEN go into
> BTW are these female soldiers in the way we have them in the UK (i.e.
> everyone but the people who actually fight) or like they appear in
Well, there is also the fact that women aren't *allowed* in front line
fighting units in a number of Western countries (ie UK, USA)...
Here (Canada) we have officially fully integrated the entire armed forces. The
last holdouts were submarine crews, but I think that has changed now too.
Theoretically, ALL units are open to female members, and we have deployed
female infantry, armour crew, etc, overseas. Having said that, there are very
few women in the combat arms. One of the biggest reasons why is recruitment...
While they opened up the combat trades to women, there don't seem to be many
women who are *interested* in joining those sorts of units.
The answer (in our case, anyway) to the "men will do silly things if women are
allowed in the club" issue is to stuff it in their face... The Charter of
Rights and Freedoms in our Constitution makes it difficult to descriminate on
the basis of gender, and I think the military decided to preempt a Charter
challenge in court (which they would almost certainly loose if they tried to
prevent women combat soldiers) by going ahead and integrating. Women in the CF
still face all kinds of hurdles (ie male stubbornness), but not legal ones.
That same pattern is repeating all over the place.
My take on the "women in the military in the GZGverse" is that in all but a
few cases, they'd be fighting members of the armed services. "Man"power
reasons alone would, I think, require it.
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