I'm testing my proposed Islamic Fed TO, which includes a Martyr platoon of
suicide bombers, usually broken into teams for attachment to regular or
assault platoons. But how do we handle them? My suggestion: a) treat the
bombers as if they've successfully made a Last Stand check
for morale purposes--can move into melee without a confidence check
b) they carry explosives which, when detonated, affect an area as a single
small or medium artillery burst
(receiving a charge from a couple of squads of Mad Bombers at once would, no
doubt, be an exciting experience. Hopefully no one is cheesy enough to do
that).
Now, if one is killed before he gets to his target point, does he
automatically go *boom*, or automatically not, or do you test to see what
happens? If the former, he's obviously not going to have a lot of close
friends on the approach; if not, though, he risks the possibility of getting
killed but not taking any infidels with him.
Hmmm...
I don't know about the free pass on that morale check to enter melee. I
mean in the case of this unit they are basically about to commit suicide...
I would think that this would require a morale check. :-)
If they are hit on the way in, I don't think the bomb should detonate. I think
that tech would be good enough that this would not be an issue, or at least it
would be very, very rare for a bomb to explode by accident. However,
committing suicide at JUST the right time is a tricky think,
witness any given day in Israel :-(. I think perhaps another check of
some sort to see if they detonate too early or something.
Just my thoughts, Scott
> From: "laserlight@quixnet.net" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
> assault platoons. But how do we handle them? My suggestion:
> Scott Clinton Wrote:
> Hmmm...
I
> mean in the case of this unit they are basically about to commit
You'd THINK, but modern events seem to indicate otherwise...
> If they are hit on the way in, I don't think the bomb should detonate.
I
> think that tech would be good enough that this would not be an issue,
Unless they WANT them to explode on being shot, as a failsafe measure.
> However, committing suicide at JUST the right time is a tricky think,
> some
Agreed.
> On 25-Jan-02 at 14:02, Brian Bilderback (bbilderback@hotmail.com) wrote:
I
> >mean in the case of this unit they are basically about to commit
You don't hear about the ones that chicken out, no boom. Think about the 0911
attacks, most of the terrorists did not know it was a suicide mission (or so
it has been reported by the news services.) If there had been confidence they
would go through with a suicide attack they would have been told.
Scott
> If they are hit on the way in, I don't think the bomb should detonate.
I
> think that tech would be good enough that this would not be an issue,
BB2
> Unless they WANT them to explode on being shot, as a failsafe measure.
Yes, the question is "do you rig it with a deadman trigger?" Sorry, should
have been more clear with that.
Scott
> However, committing suicide at JUST the right time is a tricky think,
> some sort to see if they detonate too early or something.
I thought about that, but these are not improvised explosives made in
your sink--these are charges made up by military demolitions people for
use by the army. I would concur if the suicide bombers were guerillas /
amateurs / terrorists--such people could easily be part of a scenario,
but I'm specifically talking about army units here.
> I thought about that, but these are not improvised explosives made in
It's your game (of course) but I disagree.
I don't really think that the TYPE of explosive used is of any real relevance.
If it goes "boom" and has a reliable trigger then it really comes down to the
person hitting the button, and their psychology. Unless these people are going
to represent aliens or basically mindless drones they WILL have the innate
human instinct to survive. It may be buried, and suppressed. But even in the
most well trained suicide bomber it may cause them to hesitate for a second or
three...or make them a bit jumpy and cause their judgment to be 'off' a bit at
the key moment.
Also, how much time do you spend training a suicide bomber? I would think it
would be minimal do to the ease of the task they are to perform (push
this button) and the fact they are expendable. And I would think that the
training time would mainly have to be psychological mumbo-jumbo to
convince them to really do it when the time was right (and not two seconds too
soon/too late).
Now, the Starguard line of minis has some bug bombers that would fit the
bill nicely. But, IMHO, humans need to make 'some sort' of check at the
critical time to determine success/partial success/failure.
As always, just my opinion.
Scott said:
> >I don't know about the free pass on that morale check to enter melee.
I
> >mean in the case of this unit they are basically about to commit
How about a Last Stand check *per man*? Maybe a better chance than
1-in-6, since this is a suicide unit and these guys have volunteered,
knowing what the deal is (not to mentioned having been brain washed since age
6 about what a great thing it is).
As far as the "does it go off exactly on time" issue, I was thinking about the
frequent reports of bombers who blow themselves up accidentally, either while
making the bomb or while trying to get to their target. I don't know that SG
timescale is that sensitive that a
few seconds off is going to make all that much difference--I'da thought
that resolving it as a mortar hit would account for that.
--- Scott Clinton <grumbling_grognard@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> If they are hit on the way in, I don't think the
Uhh... depends on the sensitivity of the explosive and the fuze type by
function.
> "laserlight@quixnet.net" wrote:
> I'm testing my proposed Islamic Fed TO, which includes a Martyr
How badly is the Islamic Federation being pressed in your timeline? It is not
that blowing themselves up is a higher vocation, but that the only thing more
limited than the palestinian arsenal is the career potential of a large number
of palestinians. Expending humans as ordnance is something only done out of
desperation. People only volunteer for it because there is little else for
them to do. I am told
> Richard Bell wrote:
> Nobody has suicide squads until after the war has been lost.
With enough training/brainwashing, I don't see why not. There was a
sect in the middle east a few years ago (AD1300-1400 or thereabouts,
> "laserlight@quixnet.net" wrote:
> I thought about that, but these are not improvised explosives made in
Uhm, unless the IF is on the real short end of the stick in a war, the suicide
squad is unlikely to include anyone with more than a week's experience of
military life. On the other hand, if the IF is desperate enough to field
suicide bombers as anything other than a messy form of execution, the squad
members will have even less. Military
> Laserlight wrote:
> Richard Bell wrote:
Did it kill them? Was it a doomsday cult that felt desperate? If it takes more
training to produce a suicide bomber than a combat rifleman, why aren't you
producing more combat riflemen?
Castration is not that extreme. There are people that voluntarily reject the
pleasures of the flesh, but make it harder by NOT castrating themselves. There
was a time in Chinese history where guaranteeing that you would have no blood
descendants was the surest way to political power. Even in the late nineteenth
century, certain boys, in Europe, were convinced to allow themselves to be
castrated to preserve a singing career [aside: oddly, these castrati were
never at loose ends for the
Let's just say that if the castrati lost the round, but not the slender as a
result of becoming castrati...
No illegitimate children to muck up their marriage potential.]
Was that vague but informative enough.
--Flak
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:09:45 -0500
> Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Laserlight wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:09:45 -0500 Richard and Emily Bell
> <rlbell@sympatico.ca> writes:
<anip>. Even in the late nineteenth century, certain boys, in Europe,
> were convinced to allow themselves to be castrated to preserve a
Safety?
Gracias,
In a message dated 1/26/02 9:38:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> laserlight@quixnet.net writes:
> Richard Bell wrote:
For that matter we had a suicidal sect whose men castrated themselves in
California just a few years ago, Didn't make any of them useful soldiers in a
winning cause. Even well indoctrinated humans know they can only do this
once, unlike for example a banzai charge where there are going to be some
survivors for next time. Its only good use is when the situation is desperate.
And parenthetically, while I have no problem with your playing with suicide
bombers, its a little too close to home for me right now and maybe for some
time. You might want to make sure none of your regular opponents have the same
sort of problems with them. Just to avoid any unpleasant feelings at the
table.
> > > Nobody has suicide squads until after the war has been lost.
I don't think this takes into account a non-European mindset, but In
Any Event, this doesn't deal with what I asked. :-)
*Assuming* that there are suicide bombers--which there are, 'cause Jon
> Laserlight wrote:
> > > > Nobody has suicide squads until after the war has been lost.
I actually think that the suicide bombers described in the WH40K Imperial
Guard list are the best suicide unit that you can think of. Each of the
"redeemed sinners" is wearing an explosive vest, which will detonate if the
wearer is killed. They are not attached to regular units and try not to bunch
up. They are to dart forward and set themselves off. Between the distinctive
markings of the wearer and limited range of WH40K weapons, they can sometimes
chase around enemy units. The important thing is that not all of the vests are
armed (though they can all be set of sympathetically by other explosions), so
there is a chance that the
> --- JRebori682@aol.com wrote:
> California just a few years ago, Didn't make any of
In point of fact, I can't recall very many winning causes that used suicide
troops. BUT, then again, we're talking Arabs here. Suicide troops or not, they
don't have a real great post-gunpowder record.
> they can only do this
Sure. It's not tactically sound. It's also not tactically sound to have an
infantry squad with only one sustained fire weapon per infantry squad. But
it's reality of GZG-verse (The IFed units I just got
in the mail today include a few suicide bombers, as a matter of fact) that the
IFed routinely uses "martyrs". So...
IMHO, treat them as light artillery shells, detonated at the player's option.
They also go boom when they
loose their nerve--ie, become broken. They're ready
to go to Allah, the only thing their morale affects is whether they keep their
heads long enough to get close enough to do some good.
> And parenthetically, while I have no problem with
Hey, if you're playing ragheads oposite me, you intend it to be a Holy War on
my part anyway. It's why Don won't do it.
--- Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
> Did it kill them?
No, they committed suicide later.
> Was it a doomsday cult that felt desperate?
They were planning to meet the aliens flying behind
the Hale-Bopp comet. I don't know the details of
their mythology, but this statement repeated in the media makes me presume
that it was as muddled as the science behind that plan.
> If it takes more training to produce a suicide bomber
Cultural differences. ie, it's easier for Palestinians to produce suicide
bombers than good infantrymen. It would be much harder for US to produce
suicide bombers because we don't think that way.
> Castration is not that extreme. There are people
We call them "monks". Or nuns.
There was a time in Chinese history
> where guaranteeing that
You couldn't plot to coup onto the throne. However, this didn't prevent them
from plotting on behalf of nephews.
--- Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
> Uhm, unless the IF is on the real short end of the
True. BUT, standardized initiation kits can be
mass-produced and stocked for these circumstances.
Besides which, it's not hard to rig a dead-man's
switch. I could do it easily--and so could anyone
else with an imagination and an FM 5-250.
--- Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
> How badly is the Islamic Federation being pressed in
Uhh... they DO exist. I ordered a big platoon deal of IFed weenies and out of
72, Jon included 3 suicide bombers.
Besides, that last sentence only makes sense if your culture places value on
human life. We're talking about Muslims, so that's not a factor.
> Besides, that last sentence only makes sense if your
Ah for God's sake!!
Lets NOT go here. These sorts of ignorant, racist statement needs to be
keep off list <period>
--- Scott Clinton <grumbling_grognard@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> >> Besides, that last sentence only makes sense if
Point of Fact:
Islam is a religion.
Arabic is an ethnicity.
Semetic is a race.
At no point have I made a statement about "Semetic" peoples because there are
very few statements that apply to even a majority of them.
I have made impolite statements about Arabs in
general. There's a lot to say on that subject--with
the caveat that I have met more than a few who are Antiochian Orthodox
Christians who are good people who I like.
However, a statement about Islam and it's warping effects on it's followers is
not racist. There are
Every time I read about someone spouting off about the lack of value on human
life or the inherent evil that exists in Muslims or Arabs it points out one
thing to me:
Ignorance on the part of the person making the statement.
Ignorance can be dispelled by learning, so it isn't a character flaw or even
an intellectual deficiency. With that in mind I think it's particularly
important given the times we live in for everyone to learn just a little bit
about Muslims and people of Middle Eastern descent. Without that knowledge
gross errors are going to be made, or, in the forum of this mailing list,
grossly ignorant statements will be made.
Failure to alleviate ignorance when given the opportunity and/or
adequate reason I qualify as 'willful ignorance', something colloquially
referred to as foolishness or stupidity.
Islam is NOT based on martyrs and no value for human life. Those are the evil
manipulations of people who have hijacked the religion for their own political
aims. They are hypocrites.
The terrorists and those who support them (cheering in the streets, clapping
while watching the news coverage of the towers falling, etc) are no more good
Muslims than members of the KKK are good Christians. There are a lot of
parallels that can be drawn between the attitudes of Christian Crusaders and
the attitudes of those who perpetuate hatred and perpetrate violence is
Islam's name. Neither of which have a place in a civilized world (a concept
that arguably exists only as a concept).
Closed minds and closed fists miss out on grasping some of the most important
things in this world.
--Flak
Now I'm braced for some incoming vitriol, but that's okay, I really want to
learn how to use my mail filters anyway.
> On 26 Jan 2002 at 16:42, Scott Clinton wrote:
+++SNIPPED STATEMENT BASED ON IGNORANCE+++
> Ah for God's sake!!
> Every time I read about someone spouting off about the lack of value
I tend to agree with John on this particular point--not for *each*
Muslim, of course, but overall--and, while I don't claim to be an
expert on anything, I do know something about this topic. If anyone wants to
debate it
***************O F F L I S T****************
that's fine. But it's straying from the topic again. I haven't heard anyone
argue vehemently with the "small to medium arty burst" idea, for radius, so
I'll take it that meets general consensus and let's go on to another thread.
Come to think of it, this could also apply to the Exploding Drop Bears
Of course, you are right. It was not literally racist.
It was just a narrow-minded and extremely ignorant statement. I stand
corrected.
Scott
> From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
> --- Flak Magnet <flakmagnet72@yahoo.com> wrote:
You know what, this is almost an annual discussion on the list. Every time it
degenerates to my quoting to Koran in the face of whichever bleeding heart
liberal Islamic sympathizer is preaching at me. That's almost always the end
of the thread.
> Ignorance on the part of the person making the
Flakmagnet, I actually have read the Koran. I took notes for the first 300
pages and made annotations in my copy. After that it started to blur together
and I lost interest. But the following passages are of interest to those
wishing to understand Islamic warfare.
Surah II, v. 244: Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is the
Hearer, Knower.
Surah III, v. 157&158: And what though ye be slain in Allah's way or die
therein? Surely pardon from Allah and mercy are better than all that they
amass. What though ye be slain or die, when unto Allah ye are gathered?
Surah VI, v. 34: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one
of them to excel the other. (Hey, it's a seperate subject. I just LOVE that
quote because I throw it in the face of every woman who tries to preach
tolerance of Islam. Under Islam they'd have no right to contradict me.)
Surah IV, v.84: So fight, O Muhammad, in the way of
Allah--Thou are not taxed with responsibility for
anyone except for thyself--and urge on the believers.
Peradventure Allah will restrain the might of those who disbelieve.
Surah IV v. 89: So choose not friends from them till they forskake their homes
in the way of Allah; if they turn back then take them and kill them wherever
ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from them.
Surah IV v. 95: Those of the believers who sit still, other than those who
have a disabling hurt, are not on an equality with those who strive in the way
of Allah with their wealth and their lives.
Surah IV v. 104: Relent not in pursuit of the enemy.
Surah V v.33: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His
messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be
killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off,
or will be expelled out of the land.
Surah V. v.49: And if they turn away, then know that Allah's will is to smite
them for some sin of theirs.
Surah V. v.51: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for
friends.
Surah VII, v.4-5: How many a township have We
destroyed! As a raid by night, while they slept at noon, Our terror came upon
them. No plea had they, when Our terror came unto them.
Surah VIII, v19: And fight them until all persecution is no more and religion
is all for Allah.
Surah IX, v5: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters
wherever ye find them, and take them, and besiege them, and prepare for them
the ambush.
Surah IX, v9: How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for
the idolaters?
Surah IX, v14: Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and he will
lay them low.
Surah IX, v41: Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed,
and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah!
Surah IX, v52: Say: Can ye await for us aught save one of two good things
(death or victory in Allah's way)? while we await for you that Allah will
afflict you with a doom from Him or at our hands?
Surah IX, v73: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites!
Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is in hell, a hapless
journey's-end.
Surah IX, v123: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near
to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those
who keep their duty.
And finally two of the most damning passages of the Koran:
Surah VIII, v65-67: O Prophet! Exhort the believers
to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred,
and if there be of you a hundred steadfast they shall overcome a thousand of
those who disbelieve, because they are a folk without intelligence. Now hath
Allah lightened your burden, for He knoweth that there is weakness in you. So
if there be of you a steadfast hundred they shall overcome two hundred, and if
there be of you a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by the permission
of Allah. Allah is with the steadfast. It is not for any Prophet to have
captives until he has made slaughter in the land.
Surah IX, v.29: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture
as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath
forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they
pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
OK, now I'm just a dumb soldier "with no intelligence" but I can read the
English language. Sure, according to Islam I'm going to hell because I don't
speak Arabic. But I HAVE to go off the translations (the one I'm using was
done by one Marmaduke Pickthall who converted to Islam while in India working
for the Nizam of Hyderabad). I have therefor been given the scripture, but do
not believe in Allah nor the Last Day, and still consume alcohol and pork and
gamble, and I will NOT ever follow Islam, nor will I pay tribute to any Muslim
readily, nor have I been brought low. So it is an act of self defense to
struggle against Islam and sympathizers of Islam.
> are a lot of parallels that can
The difference between Christian Crusaders and Islamic Jihadists (to coin a
term) is simple:
Islamic Jihad is demanded in Koran and supported by the vast majority of
mainstream Islamic theologians.
In fact, can you name a pre-20th century Islamic
writer who preached non-violence? Go for it. The old
tired refrain that those who preach violence are not really "good Muslims" is
a little silly given that by that definition the vast majority of the world's
Muslims are "not good Muslims". Are good Muslims only found in the US?
The Crusades were an abberation. They are not supported in Scripture, nor are
they in keeping with the Tradition of the Fathers of the Church (St.
Augustine, the originator of the Just War doctrine in the West would be
particularly horrified). They are not supported by the Councils, nor by the
majority of the Patriarchs. They were called unilatterally by one bishop (OK,
OK, Don, I'll go as far as to refer to him as the Patriarch of the West) and
proceeded to commit atrocities on as many Christians as Muslims. Furthermore
they are almost universally acknowledged as being inherently flawed, whereas
Islamic suicide bombers are heralded all over the world.
Oh, and shall we raise the issue of who was agressing first in this instance?
The Crusades were initiated by the Seljuk invasion of the Middle East, and
more specifically by their invasion of Anatolia and defeat of the Roman field
army at the battle of Manzikert. You want me to feel sorry for the Muslims
when they get a backlash? My problem with the Crusades is more
with the execution (sloppy--Franks who thought that
anyone who wasn't a Frank was a "Saracen". Lots of dead Greeks and Armenians,
which always bothers me) and the theology behind the papal bulls in question.
Done. I've taken my half of that discussion off-list. Apologies for
continuing it.
Now about this small-med arty burst... Are we talking about a battery of
guns firing dispersed salvoes vs. tightly packed salvoes that in game terms
gives larger area to the dispersed salvoes but higher potency for the tightly
packed salvoes?
Makes sense to me.
--Flak
> On 26 Jan 2002 at 19:16, Laserlight wrote:
> > Every time I read about someone spouting off about the lack of value
> John Atkinson wrote:
> --- Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>
It is next to impossible for the palestinians to produce ANY infantrymen. If
americans had the same standard of living as the palestinians, there would be
no shortage of american suicide bombers. That impoverished segment of the
american populace that makes barely enough money to not qualify for medicare
has a standard of living beyond the dreams of avarice for the typical
palestinian.
Americans do not produce suicide bombers because it is a nominally
> Uhh. . . they DO exist. I ordered a big platoon deal
Ok, I tried. I really did.
I've bitten my tongue and said nothing for weeks now, as J.A. rants and raves
and makes these sorts of remarks.
Other people have responded with well-thought-out remarks... and I
*know* that there really isn't any point in responding, because he just
doesn't understand that people are *actually* offended by this sort of racist
horseshit. I know that...
Maybe it's the weather, or something... but I just can't let that one go
without saying *something*.
John, why do you feel the need to say stuff like this. You know it genuinely
offends people, and it is manifestly, obviously wrong. I suppose it is
redundant of me to ask if you've met *all* Muslims, isn't it? That there are
plenty of Muslims living in the good ole' U.S.of A. (that, goodness forbit,
might actually serve their country loyally in the armed forces, but maintain
their Muslim culture) that might not agree that they, *all of them*, *every
last one*, place no value on human life...? This is like "All Germans Are
Nazis", "All Americans are Racist Rednecks", etc. etc.
So what gives?
I know you've said that 75%+ of your comments are said with some kind of
tongue in cheek, and I'm inclined by nature to give you the benefit of the
doubt, but really... There is a line between "charmingly provocative" and
"boorish". Even between "justifiably angry" and "boorish", though the line is
narrower.
This list is, most of the time, a pretty civil, polite, interesting and
largely flame free place to "hang out and chat". Lots of great people from all
over the place, who manage to have pleasant and informative chats about lots
of different subjects, often actually related to GZG stuff...
We all like it that way. That's what this list is about.
And then there is you. Lots and lots of interesting and informative and
creative ideas, and then you run off at the mouth with that kind of ignorant
crap, which *you know* makes people angry, and lowers the quality of the list
experience for everyone (except, I guess, you).
If we say "pretty please" will you at least *consider* other people before
spouting off? I'm not asking you to change your views, or anything like that.
It would be wrong of me to tell you to change your views. But do you really
*have* to be inflammatory to the point where it makes the list less fun? It
really is quite selfish.
***************************************
> It is next to impossible for the palestinians to produce ANY
I'm sorry but poverty is the over used excuse for all ills (example the great
depression did not cause a massive crime wave). Further more allot of money
has been pumped in to the coffers of the PLO and has not been used for it's
stated purpose of food ect....Has bought allot of gun though.
> Americans do not produce suicide bombers because it is a nominally
Society is a refection of the people in it not the other way round, as for the
job it hard to create work for martyrs. I would in all honesty be hesitant in
hiring someone who may for some perceived
hurt/wrong (or real) blow me and mine away if it was in
the causes best interest.
I might ask if the money for this death benefit exists why can't it be used to
fund a better living for the people it says it cares so much about? The answer
is obvious, the welfare of the people is not really the goal of these
organizations.
There is quite simply no remedy here other than to completely separate the two
groups.
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, John Atkinson wrote:
> --- Flak Magnet <flakmagnet72@yahoo.com> wrote:
And every damn time it's extremely off topic and pointed out as such. You
don't learn, do you?
From: "John Atkinson" <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
G'day,
> I ordered a big platoon deal
Are the figs 25mm and if so how "generic" are they? My Nuns have been
polishing up on their Exodus and Deuteronomy and want to lay waste to those
who don't worship their deity... OK so I'm finding that my, uhhh, slightly
under dressed Nuns are having a bit of trouble with Lachy's PA....
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:40:19 -0500 Richard and Emily Bell
> <rlbell@sympatico.ca> writes:
<snip>
> It is next to impossible for the palestinians to produce ANY
No problem with he vernacular, it would be some equally rude equivalent in
Arabic I'm sure.
So moving to the Res' (Reservation) would be a quantum leap forward? Hmmm.
To a degree I believe you are accurate but I don't remember any suicide
bombers coming out of the Native American cultures during the 1899-1939
period (pretty much the bottom for many tribes/nations) or the Blacks
during the post-Reconstruction period. So it is more than just the
economic condition. Yes the lack of a future 'corners' one but suicide
bombing has to have more then just a material component, I MO.
But we are *W-a-y* off of GZG and way into
sociology/psychology/political
science...
Gracias,
You know, maybe the best way to stop these threads is to *not* respond to
them?
Taking my own advice...
click....
"...If you wish to place a call..."
> --- Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
Yes. As for generic... they have towels (keffiahs, or something like that) on
their noggins and most have mustaches, some have beards. Some sort of
back-and-breast armor with shoulder pads. They've got
little bullpup rifles, SAWs with integral bipods, and
GMS/Ps. Plus the pack included 3 flamer guys (with
respirators), 3 guys with scopes on their rifles, 3 guys with big packs
(medics, I presume), and 3 suicide bombers (keffiah, charges on their belt,
and detonator in hand).
I'm organizing them in 9-man squads with a SAW and
GMS/P per squad, plus a flamethrower and suicide
bomber in the 3rd squad of each platoon. This leaves me with a suicide bomber
and a flamer guy left
over--I'm going to buy some loose figure to make a
small assault squad as part of the HW platoon, plus
some SAW and GMS/Ps in that unit. It works out to 2
platoons, plus part of the HW PLT. Don's going to convert some Necromundan
gangers (the ones with hoods) to an elite Tuareg close assault squad (I need
some 25mm camels for them, though!). It'll work out pretty well.
> On Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 03:01:47PM -0500, Richard and Emily Bell wrote:
The _Sten_ series (Allan Cole & Chris Bunch - 8-book SF series) has an
interesting example of a suicide bomber. Her superiors establish that she's
prepared to give her life for The Cause; she is told "drive this van full of
explosives up to the enemy barracks, and pull the blue
lever; that'll start a five-minute timer, at which point you run away.
If you pull the red lever, that'll set off the bomb at once; but don't do that
unless you have to, we value your commitment." Naturally, either lever will
set off the bomb immediately; and, in practice, she's fanatical enough that
she pulls both anyway...
--- Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
> It is next to impossible for the palestinians to
They tried up until 1967. They were just not good enough to even slow down the
Israelis.
If americans had the same standard of
> living as the
Really? I didn't notice any during the Great
Depression--or during our Civil War, when living
standards in both Vicksburg and Richmond dropped far below those available in
Palestinian refugee camps. Hell, even the Irish never went for it and they
have been (at various times) at least as opressed as the Palestinians are.
It's not how Europeans think.
> On 26-Jan-02 at 19:33, John Atkinson (johnmatkinson@yahoo.com) wrote:
> You know what, this is almost an annual discussion on
John, Read the Christian bible. You can find many similar statements. Contrary
to popular belief the book is not the religion. The religion is the beliefs
and actions
of the _majority_ of the people.
We don't blame Christians for the bombing in OK City, even though the US
"Militias" all claim Christianity as their religion and claim they are acting
on a mandate from god.
Forgive me if I doubt your expertise in cultural issues.
'Nuff.
[quoted original message omitted]
> --- Roger Books <books@jumpspace.net> wrote:
G'day,
> Yes. As for generic. . . they have towels (keffiahs,
Well with a little ingenuity I could make them look Eastern Church or Orthodox
by the sound of it...
> Don's going to convert some Necromundan gangers
I've got them already.... painted up as the various types of Catholic monk...
and that supreme nutter guy works well painted as the pope.... (his book goes
real well painted as one of those illustrated scriptures).
Cheers
> --- Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
Except for the keffiahs... I've yet to meet an Orthodox with a keffiah.
G'day,
> Except for the keffiahs. . . I've yet to meet an
Like I said, little ingenuity, but lots of Christian churches wear flowing
stuff on their heads.
[quoted original message omitted]
Me too, off list. Definitely off list.
Gracias,
Glenn/Triphibious@juno.com
This is my Science Fiction Alter Ego E-mail address.
Historical - Warbeads@juno.com
Fantasy and 6mm - dwarf_warrior@juno.com
On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:05:44 -0500 "laserlight@quixnet.net"
> <laserlight@quixnet.net> writes:
> At 12:19 29/01/02 +1100, Beth wrote:
(his
> book goes real well painted as one of those illustrated scriptures).
Check out our gallery under the miscellaneous section.
Cheers